Heavan / Hell - Both are Unfair ??

[B-Man]

So our bodies live on this planet earth for 70-80 years (average).

If our bodies sin, when we die, our souls go to eternal hell - Seems a bit rough for only 70-80 years of sinning.

If our bodies don't sin, when we die, our souls go to eternal heavan - Seems a bit too good to be true for a mere 70-80 years of not sinning.

You get my meaning ?? 70-80 years verus eternal heaven/hell.

Doesn't make sense to me......

 

[michel]

So our bodies live on this planet earth for 70-80 years (average).

If our bodies sin, when we die, our souls go to eternal hell - Seems a bit rough for only 70-80 years of sinning.

If our bodies don't sin, when we die, our souls go to eternal heavan - Seems a bit too good to be true for a mere 70-80 years of not sinning.

You get my meaning ?? 70-80 years verus eternal heaven/hell.

Doesn't make sense to me......

Hi, B-Man;

Your public profile does not say what you believe in; the question you have asked above needs to have an understanding of what you believe before any answer can be given.

 

[Druidus]

I think "Heaven" would be unfair in a bad sense. I don't want to sing praises for eternity about a guy I might not agree with...

 

[jewscout]

You get my meaning ?? 70-80 years verus eternal heaven/hell.

Doesn't make sense to me......

Why i don't buy into the traditional christian concept of the afterlife

 

[MrMorden]

i think something is missing here, but i wont presume to know what it is, however, i do believe that there is more than meets the eye and that the common definitions arent adequate

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Your premise is wrong. No one goes to hell because they are sinners. Nowhere in the Bible is this stated. Death is the result of the sin of Adam (Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and sodeath passed upon all menRom 5:12).

Eternity is dependant upon belief on Christ, "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God." John 3:17-18.

 

[No*s]

So our bodies live on this planet earth for 70-80 years (average).

If our bodies sin, when we die, our souls go to eternal hell - Seems a bit rough for only 70-80 years of sinning.

If our bodies don't sin, when we die, our souls go to eternal heavan - Seems a bit too good to be true for a mere 70-80 years of not sinning.

You get my meaning ?? 70-80 years verus eternal heaven/hell.

Doesn't make sense to me......

The Orthodox Church doesn't take heaven and hell as a place. Rather, we feel both are the presence of the same God. When we go, we experience God, and how we experience Him and union with Him determines what is heaven and what is hell.

It still may not strike you as fair, but heaven isn't constituted by us singing praises all day either while playing harps .

 

[B-Man]

My point was not meant to debate , how or why our souls go to heavan or hell - just that I think it's seems mighty unfair that our physical bodies spend 70-80 years on earth - And from what I understnand of Modern Anglican Christianity, our souls go to either heavan or hell, depending on how we have led our 70-80 years of life. And this to me seem very unfair.

I also don't seem to understand why 'what I beleive in' has anything to do with the debate - Just say I don't beleive in anything right now - because I don't know ?

 

[B-Man]

2 Peter 2:4
For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, [ Greek Tartarus] putting them into gloomy dungeons [ Some manuscripts into chains of darkness] to be held for judgment;

Those dudes Matthew and Mark has a lot to say about Hell too didn't they - Like 'It's better to to do <this and that> and become a <whatever> rather than to sin and go to Hell.

PS - My intepretation of 'Eternal Life' is 'Heaven' and 'Eternal Damnation' is 'Hell'.

 

[No*s]

My point was not meant to debate , how or why our souls go to heavan or hell - just that I think it's seems mighty unfair that our physical bodies spend 70-80 years on earth - And from what I understnand of Modern Anglican Christianity, our souls go to either heavan or hell, depending on how we have led our 70-80 years of life. And this to me seem very unfair.

I also don't seem to understand why 'what I beleive in' has anything to do with the debate - Just say I don't beleive in anything right now - because I don't know ?

My answer was on the fairness. It's simply a relation to God. What I probably should have said, is that I'm not sure that fairness has much to do with it anymore than disease does when it strikes...

 

[B-Man]

I guess it comes down to one's definition of fair then ? Fair to me in this context means out of proportion, uneven. Unlike disease when it strikes, which I classify as random (but still unfair). Different contexts...

 

[No*s]

I guess it comes down to one's definition of fair then ? Fair to me in this context means out of proportion, uneven. Unlike disease when it strikes, which I classify as random (but still unfair). Different contexts...

However, we view sin as corruption and much like a disease, and Hell is how a person subject to corruption experiences God. As such, the two are very similar in our minds .

 

[B-Man]

I understand what you mean, however,

My views on Sin as a corruption - If you beleive in sin as per the definition in the Bible, and you have a mind - it your choice to sin or not. I dont see that analogy to disease.

It's no-one's choice to get cancer.

I beleive that intrinsically - something inside says to me - If I am not sinful for 70-80 years - I get eternal life. Majorly Good Deal. If I am sinful and I am not forgiven, I get eternal damnation - That's a bit rough.

That is all

 

[groovydancer88]

If our bodies sin, when we die, our souls go to eternal hell - Seems a bit rough for only 70-80 years of sinning.

If our bodies don't sin, when we die, our souls go to eternal heavan - Seems a bit too good to be true for a mere 70-80 years of not sinning.

It seems as though you are treating bodies and souls as seperate entities. This seperation occurs only at death (I believe). If our bodies sin, it is because our souls essentially told it to. Or something like that.

But as Sandy pointed out, the Christian belief is that souls are saved based on belief in Christ, not how much sinning they were involved in.

 

[No*s]

I understand what you mean, however,

My views on Sin as a corruption - If you beleive in sin as per the definition in the Bible, and you have a mind - it your choice to sin or not. I dont see that analogy to disease.

It's no-one's choice to get cancer.

I beleive that intrinsically - something inside says to me - If I am not sinful for 70-80 years - I get eternal life. Majorly Good Deal. If I am sinful and I am not forgiven, I get eternal damnation - That's a bit rough.

There's more than one way to interpret the Bible . I read the Bible, and I believe it. How I interpret it, though, is a little different. "Sin" is an imperfection or not some other means of "missing the mark," and the Greek verb is the same one used in some forms of Ancient Greek to say "I missed" when shooting arrows.

If sin is a missing the mark, and not just a choice, then it can be inherited. When Adam sinned (for us, at least), he was changed. His image was no longer what it should be...it was now flawed and missed its mark. When he had children, this was passed on from generation to generation.

I can't speak for Hebrew, but there are a variety of base words for "sin:"

amartano is the verb form, and it means basically to mess up.
amartima is the noun form that indicates an action exclusively
amartia is a noun that can indicate an action, or also an abstract noun, similar to sophia which is wisdom.

All these words (and some others) are translated into English as one word: "sin," so differences are missed in the NT, and I imagine, there are some distinctions for the word "sin" in Hebrew as well.

So, my concept of "sin" covers what I said and what you said. They are both imperfect, and the hereditary "missing the mark," is a form of corruption that slowly kills our race. In this sense, it is a disease, and thus, I regard the fairness in this respect very similar to how I do disease.

EDIT:

I neglected to mention that we don't believe guilt is inherited, but corruption, and on account of that, we all sin. Our sins, then change how we relate to God. As a result of that, we experience God as hell, not heaven...making this a disease issue for us (there are a few occasions where "save" in Greek, sozo, also may be translated as "heal" )

 

[Doc]

Although my concern does not rest in the afterlife, I will answer. I do not believe in Hell simply for the fact that if God sent us here, and we were already gunna be thrown into the eternal fire, why send us here to begin with. That is why I believe in Reincarnation. If we live ourlives in proper accordance to Jesus/8fold Path, then we can achieve Nirvana or Heaven otherwise we would come back here to suffer again.

 

[GHSSOCCER07]

Doc, i have had the same exact thoughts. It makes me happy to find out i am not the only one who thinks that.

 

[B-Man]

Although my concern does not rest in the afterlife, I will answer. I do not believe in Hell simply for the fact that if God sent us here, and we were already gunna be thrown into the eternal fire, why send us here to begin with. That is why I believe in Reincarnation. If we live ourlives in proper accordance to Jesus/8fold Path, then we can achieve Nirvana or Heaven otherwise we would come back here to suffer again.

Doesn't the 4 noble truths / 8 foldpath say that you DO come back and suffer again (rebirth) until you reach Nirvana - that could be many many times.

 

[uu_sage]

Heaven and Hell as viewed by mainstream Christian belief are both troublesome/unfair places with serious questions to be addressed. If Heaven is viewed as worship the almighty for eternity, then wouldn't it be difficult for people who in life were not able to pull through a complete service? After a while in Heaven, praising God's name, wouldn't things get boring? If somebody makes it to Heaven, and the rest of the family is in Hell, would they still know their family? Would it be discomforting to know your family is suffering? Suppose a
masochist dies and crosses over, do you think the masochist would view Hell as heaven and vice versa? With scores of souls worshiping God and if God is viewed as all knowing, all powerful, ect. then why would a perfect being need anything? To say God needs anything undermines their perfection. Compared to Heaven, Hell is just as bad, if not worse. Hell if viewed as a place of suffering begs to ask: If God is loving and compassionate, why would God condemn its own finite creation to a place of infinite suffering, for finite offenses?. Punishment does not equal the crime. Having hell exist creates a sinister, sadistic and twisted view of God from the darkest part of our being. If God is love, then God wills for the salvation of all people not just the elect (regardless of beliefs, or lack thereof) no matter how grievous our wrongdoing is. For others they view hell as seperation from God, if this is the case, humans are clueless as to what happens beyond the natural world-meaning potential mistakes could be made in our decision. According to this view, God allowing humans to make the decision is like a negligent parent who gives their children a shotgun then that child shoots themselves in the foot. What matters most to me in person is orthopraxy (right actions) not orthodoxy(right beliefs). I'm not to sure on the afterlife either nor I am too concerned with the existence of an afterlife. Contemplating the nature of afterlife takes away from our living in the here and now making it a more equitable, just and fair world for all.