Have we won the Iraq war?

[Starfish]

Michael Yon is a correspondant who has spent many months in Iraq, imbedded with the troops. He says:

http://michaelyon-online.com/

"The war continues to abate in Iraq. Violence is still present, but, of course, Iraq was a relatively violent place long before Coalition forces moved in. I would go so far as to say that barring any major and unexpected developments (like an Israeli air strike on Iran and the retaliations that would follow), a fair-minded person could say with reasonable certainty that the war has ended. A new and better nation is growing legs. What's left is messy politics that likely will be punctuated by low-level violence and the occasional spectacular attack. Yet, the will of the Iraqi people has changed, and the Iraqi military has dramatically improved, so those spectacular attacks are diminishing along with the regular violence. Now it's time to rebuild the country, and create a pluralistic, stable and peaceful Iraq. That will be long, hard work. But by my estimation, the Iraq War is over. We won. Which means the Iraqi people won."

 

[Laughing Man]

Cautious optimism is how I would put it, there are still a number of factors that could send everything there back to hell in a hand basket. But I believe that Iraq has turned an important corner as evident by the fact that the Iraqi government is now making its own assertions that do not directly correspond with our wishes. This is the sign of a strengthening government – and while it’s not over yet we may just be able to see the light at the end of the tunnel I just hope it’s not a train.

 

[Starfish]

If it's true, was it worth it?

 

[Engyo]

If it's true, was it worth it?

For that matter, what were our objectives again?

 

[Laughing Man]

I personally feel we never should have gone there - I dont think it was worth it. But that is now maybe in 5 years if things go well in that country the answer will change.

 

[Scuba Pete]

For that matter, what were our objectives again?

I objected to the use of our armed forces for commercial gain. I am surprised you forgot so quickly.

 

[Autodidact]

Sure, don't you remember? We won this war on May 1, 2003.

Everything since then has been occupation.

 

[Starfish]

I personally feel we never should have gone there - I dont think it was worth it. But that is now maybe in 5 years if things go well in that country the answer will change.

I appreciate your open mind. None of us know what will be in 5 years.

IF Iraq remains free and democratic giving those people rights and privileges they would likely have never had otherwise, IF Iraq remains a strong ally to the US in the Middle East bringing added stability into a very volatile region, IF Iraq shows other similar countries that it can be done--that freedom and democracy are attainable and possible . . .

THEN would it have been worth it?

 

[Dunemeister]

If it's a victory, it's pretty hollow, what with hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and millions displaced.

 

[Starfish]

If it's a victory, it's pretty hollow, what with hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis and millions displaced.

I'm sure many said the same in 1945.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

Goodie! Does that mean that our men and women can finally come home now?

 

[Starfish]

Goodie! Does that mean that our men and women can finally come home now?

I'd ask the soldiers themselves, that question. You might find your answer in the blog from the link in the OP.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I'd ask the soldiers themselves, that question. You might find your answer in the whole article from the link in the OP.

I clicked on it and I didn't find an answer, actually. I was being a little sarcastic in my first reply.

And I volunteer as Family Readiness Group Leader at my husband's Army Base. I have held the hands of family members who have lost their loved ones in Iraq, helped direct them all to resources during times of transition of deployment and homecoming, kept phone trees intact, and listened carefully to our base commander and his frustrations with our current administration. I am far more involved than at first glance with our soldiers, their families, and from higher-ranking officers down to privates I've talked with and supported....and I've listened to them, too.

Plus, my own husband is an Iraq War Veteran (deployed for 12 months in '04). The numbers of soldiers that I know who are fed up with Iraq is overwhelming, yet they still follow orders despite severe underfunding for them and for us (the families).

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with a single point presented in the OP.

 

[Starfish]

I clicked on it and I didn't find an answer, actually. I was being a little sarcastic in my first reply.

And I volunteer as Family Readiness Group Leader at my husband's Army Base. I have held the hands of family members who have lost their loved ones in Iraq, helped direct them all to resources during times of transition of deployment and homecoming, kept phone trees intact, and listened carefully to our base commander and his frustrations with our current administration. I am far more involved than at first glance with our soldiers, their families, and from higher-ranking officers down to privates I've talked with and supported....and I've listened to them, too.

Plus, my own husband is an Iraq War Veteran (deployed for 12 months in '04). The numbers of soldiers that I know who are fed up with Iraq is overwhelming, yet they still follow orders despite severe underfunding for them and for us (the families).

I'm sorry, I just don't agree with a single point presented in the OP.

Fair enough. But he has spent a lot of time there, and is not on the payroll of any one publication. Over time he has been critical and complementary of our side. He seems pretty credible.

 

[Troublemane]

I predict there will be a declaration of victory by september, october at the latest, if only to deprive the obama camp of the privalege. there may be some optimism that mccain will win (not likely) but i think the polls are showing a greater probability obama will win, so---that means (just to be on the safe side) victory will be declared before the election, just to ensure bush gets the glory. :angel2:

 

[Starfish]

I predict there will be a declaration of victory by september, october at the latest, if only to deprive the obama camp of the privalege. there may be some optimism that mccain will win (not likely) but i think the polls are showing a greater probability obama will win, so---that means (just to be on the safe side) victory will be declared before the election, just to ensure bush gets the glory. :angel2:

I've not thought about that. But if any president gets the "glory", one would think it belongs to Bush. If the war is blamed on him, then the victory should be as well.

 

[PureX]

Since there was no war, only an invasion and occupation, it's impossible for us to have "won" anything.

 

[MysticSang'ha]

I predict there will be a declaration of victory by september, october at the latest, if only to deprive the obama camp of the privalege. there may be some optimism that mccain will win (not likely) but i think the polls are showing a greater probability obama will win, so---that means (just to be on the safe side) victory will be declared before the election, just to ensure bush gets the glory. :angel2:

Well, Bush did say that we "misunderestimated" him.

 

[Starfish]

Since there was no war, only an invasion and occupation, it's impossible for us to have "won" anything.

Michael Yon apparently disagrees with you. So do a lot of people.

 

[Autodidact]

I appreciate your open mind. None of us know what will be in 5 years.

IF Iraq remains free and democratic giving those people rights and privileges they would likely have never had otherwise, IF Iraq remains a strong ally to the US in the Middle East bringing added stability into a very volatile region, IF Iraq shows other similar countries that it can be done--that freedom and democracy are attainable and possible . . .

THEN would it have been worth it?

They can't remain any of these things without first becoming them. They are none of those things now.