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Hard times make magicians

Discussion in 'Left-Hand Path Religions DIR' started by 1137, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. 1137

    1137 Thelemite
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    I've been here a good long while, seen lots of people come and go, even changed so drastically my original account was left to rot. Something common I noticed among this and similar communities is that rough times seem to be the main cause for people leaving occult communities. Many come to us to feel more powerful and such, yet when the stakes are set and magic fails, they blame the philosophy and not themselves.

    I had a close friend who actually was very into LHP occultism until hard times fell. He couldn't make peace between being a magician yet having to ask others for financial help and having trouble putting food on the table. Today he's back in his parent religion preaching the good word.

    My problem with this - besides seeing a brother or sister fall in such a way - is I feel a magician should be able to understand the limits of magic and the power of external circumstances. Many groups teach of like infinite supernatural power and ability through magic, and when the magic fails people believe they have failed. This is dangerous. The main RHP religions push more than enough delusions on their followers. If our path has the individual's best interests in heart, the teaching of magic as an all-capable force should be abandoned.
     
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  2. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Magick doesn't usually succeed at making you money... though it may succeed at giving you opportunities providing you aren't lazy enough not to take them. =) Also, some people are better at certain types of magick... Some are better at curses, some better at money magick, and some are better at astral traveling... etc... No one is "awesome" at all of it. He might have been trying to do something he's just not suited for.... It is also extremely hard to do magick for things you don't truly desire -- he might have not found money very important really... If that's the case magick won't change it... :) How you go back to a conventional religion is beyond me. I couldn't imagine switching off every lever in my being that indicated that those things are generally crippling for ones soul.
     
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  3. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    It could be because magic isn't real in any sense beyond self transformative psychodrama.

    I've yet to see 'magic' accomplish anything outside of that scope, its just prayer with more props.
     
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  4. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    It's quite possible it would have been more dangerous if he stayed in LHP occultism. He lacked the will and resolve to stay the course, and therefore, in my mind, he didn't belong there. But I don't really know anything about this person's situation. Given how rare it is to encounter instruction on spellcraft claiming it some sort of cure-all button (in my experience, anyway), I have a suspicion that the guy was just looking for a convenient scapegoat rather than this being a systemic problem in the community.



    I have. I'll grant there are alternative explanations (there always is when it comes to spellcraft), but I definitely have. So have many others. It's when you're expecting spellcraft to break the laws of physics that one is being a little daft about it (use of spellcraft in the otherworlds notwithstanding - you can do absolutely anything you want there).
     
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  5. 1137

    1137 Thelemite
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    This is partially my point.
     
  6. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    To quote Uncle Al from Book 4 -
    Crowley was aware that these are just the trappings and toys of the rational mind, but not the thing itself. All that being said, magick will give you more of what you intend to have when you do it... Like:

    A) More of hoping it will work -- if that is what you are filling your mind with at the moment of rapture. If you are worried about whether it worked it didn't... Doubt is your enemy..

    B) More disbelief if that is what you decide you intend to have. Your magick will aim to please. You will successfully invoke more doubt with every magickal act since you will naturally attract the energies you sympathize with.

    C) Results do not poof out of the air they manifest as synchronicity -- they come in a form that your local surrounding universe is able to manifest. A ritual to gain money will likely come as a job opportunity, to obtain a woman you may simply bump into someone interesting somewhere you normally frequent, etc... Copious footnotes aka a magickal diary must be kept. Often you will get something in a way you aren't expecting. For example... I once did a magical ritual to heal someones toothache... They got the money out of nowhere to see the doctor instead of it simply disappearing away the pain which was then used to take care of the immediate problem. That's usually how this stuff works... The path of least resistance in the locally generated cosmic soup. =) Without careful analysis it is easy to miss.

    The suspension of disbelief and not lusting for the result are the key components to successful magickal work. As you can see if you fall into the trap of A or B then C can never happen... You are in A, B, or C exclusively for the most part. We'll call phase "C" _Accepting_ as in accepting the possible result. If you can frame your mind in that fashion then your magick will work every time you do it. If not you're mostly wasting time or creating mania and obsessions with case A and B.

    As you can see the first real task is destroying all your reservations and misgivings about the thing. If you can't do that you won't have much luck. I recommend sitting down and figuring out why you think what you do since you can't actually prove or disprove magick in an objective sense what leap of logic allows someone to disprove it accordingly? That notion is illogical in and of itself. =) The real answer is something like: "We'll see.." If you can honestly come to accept that then progress can be made.
     
    #6 Mindmaster, Mar 31, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  7. Adramelek

    Adramelek Setian
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    Over the past 25 years of adulthood and being Setian/Satanic I have been through my share of trials and tribulations, loosing a job, loosing loves, loosing an apartment, drug addiction. Life's a ***** sometimes, you just got to roll with the punches and I don't think I've ever blamed my philosophy or a magical failure. I've known a few LHPathers who have been through extremely turbulent backgrounds. I knew a Priestess of Set who before she became Setian or even Satanic, she was married to a guy who would abuse her mentally and terrorize her. Sometimes he would stick a gun to her head and pull the trigger, she would never know if the gun was empty or maybe had a bullet in it. However, by the power of her Will to Magic she raised herself up like the mighty Khepera.

    I don't believe its possible to see into the future (well maybe it is), but we cannot always control what life throws at us, basic common sense and reality. And yes, lol, there have been times when I got a little angry at Set during troubled times, but the anger never lasted for very long. :smileycat:
     
    #7 Adramelek, Mar 31, 2015
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  8. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    Two words - confirmation bias.
     
  9. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Yes, this would be the case if I weren't just temporarily disabling our little mental naysayer via some very rudimentary meditative techniques that remove the interference so to speak. I view all belief systems as being illusion in that they are largely designed to keep sheep... Whether they are antinomian sheep who want to feel superior to other sheep or Abrahamic following sheep or secular government and science believing sheep they're all sheep living by various control structures for SHEEP. All of these divisions are as much phantoms of the mind as much as this magick is the only difference is people think they need these things to survive and the incumbent control structure doesn't accept magick. How's that for confirmation bias? :p

    I, however, have no such illusion that magick is anything important... It is merely the natural way of being if you weren't impeded by all of that dross. If anything it is the process of actively removing all this junk from your existence. I really think that is the only value it has. As far as effects and results it can only be seen over time.
     
    #9 Mindmaster, Mar 31, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  10. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    You first post described it more cogently.

    If I needed two words to describe this one they would be - cognitive dissonance
     
  11. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Ohh, and I thought we were all out of psychobabble buzzwords for the day. :clapping:
     
    #11 Mindmaster, Mar 31, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2015
  12. Satans_Serrated_Edge

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    Nope. Not until they stop being relevant. In your first post, you describe being predisposed to looking for certain patterns and inevitably finding them (eg - the fellow with the toothache) and in the second you go to bat for, quite emotionally, complete with a healthy dose of passive aggressiveness, things you can not rationally quantify or defend.

    Take it as you will, the shoes fit.
     
  13. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    If I could describe that post in two words: Forum Warrior.
     
  14. AnnaCzereda

    AnnaCzereda Active Member

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    Indeed. There are things beyond your control. What you can control is the way you react to these things. If you fall down, you can either get up or stay on the ground. No "magician" can rule the universe, but with some insight and practice he can learn to rule himself.
     
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  15. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    I think most things in our local universe remain in our control, but most people seem to feel that they cannot have it that way. I don't view these situations as absolutes as even the painful times in my life have led me to ultimately good situations. I had sort of a breakdown awhile back where I lost my dad, grandmother (they actually both died within a few days... neither of them knew the other was in the hospital), and my job at the same time. I spent a couple of years in the funk of that situation... lots of unresolved issues between those family members and it led to me drastically refocusing back toward my true path... A path that I had basically sold out for a small bit of compensation (well, actually large bits of compensation)... It's easy to get roped into the material world if the pay is high enough. =) Anyway, I would never allow myself to get so divided again. I wasted a lot of time that could have been spent doing something else worthwhile. I wasn't really mad that I lost money, and my relatives were in poor health -- but, I was really pissed about getting distracted from my ultimate goals. The other things were just cherries on top..

    Ultimately I feel these events were scribed in stone as guideposts for me to get back to the proper work -- if I hadn't had the experiences I probably would have just continued on my higher earning mundane path. I was pretty happy being a LaVey leg-humper as long as the pay was good, but now I just don't see the point of any group or moniker anymore since I feel that they all fail to accurately present my objective and subjective reality. While all of them hold elements of truth they're all perfectly happy to incorporate all the worthless drivel as well.

    Magick doesn't work like Harry Potter... it's subtle, and provides mostly what you truly need... The money is one way to obtain such things, but not the _only_ way. Most people really can't stop that incessant garbage chattering in their skull long enough to even know what they are truly thinking or need. Most of it is like "automatic programs" and one of these programs tells you "magick doesn't work!" or "that is simply imaginary!" It's that implanted idea that defeats all the newcomers... The mental yammering they think is their thought is a carefully honed suit of bull**** armor they used to deflect things that may contend with their currently held view. Yet, what they don't know if you destroy this chattering part of your monkey brain you still think but not in contexts defined by your peers, parentage, government, or even your past experiences. These past experiences sound like a great idea, but what do they really have to do with the now? Why do you have to keep parroting them to yourself to prove something? Why aren't you taking your cues from what is really going around you and living in the now? In the end, these problems define the limit of the truth you are able to ever actually understand. =)

    Magick doesn't work in the money context often because that's not really what you want -- usually you want freedom, happiness, love, and that sort of thing. Even if you think money will get you all that your other components are on to the ruse. It's better to rephrase ones desires correctly to obtain the goal rather than blaming the magick for the fact that you aren't going to be bothered to do it right.
     
  16. Adramelek

    Adramelek Setian
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    The Sign of the Horns is a gesture/solute of hailing a Black Brother or Sister, and a gesture/solute of the triumphant soul or psyche in the realm of Black Magic: solute and/or hail to Satan and/or the Prince of Darkness.

    [​IMG]
     
    #16 Adramelek, Apr 7, 2015
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  17. Sutekh

    Sutekh Active Member
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    It's hard to keep secrets in your normal way of life even if you are in the LHP which includes Satanism In general. I am not implying the eastern LHP I am implying the western LHP. I have been a boy scout for many years. I am a patrol leader, I tend to at least keep my beliefs to myself meaning I do not show or discuss it. I live in an evangelical mormon type city. I find it quite hard to keep quiet about it and to go into my every day life outside of my world to my friends's world. Many of my friends do not know about my beliefs. But at times I may perhaps get scared about it, today I was at a scout meeting. For some reason I forgot that I had a downloaded PDF of LaVeys Satanic rituals.:flushed: I am perhaps worried of my reputation quite a bit even though I keep everything to myself. I do apologize if this sounds irrelevant but your post was quite similar to my own experiences on being pressured to the point of being forced to nearly leave the LHP. I had to fight my way at times.
     
    #17 Sutekh, Jul 10, 2016
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  18. Hammerheart

    Hammerheart Well-Known Member

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    Magick isn't a solution for everything. There are some things that magick can fix to some extent, and there are other things that it won't fix.

    Followers of the right hand path seem to pray in the midst of disaster hoping that it will somehow end their situation. However, they don't really think it will. In situations like that, any kind of attempt to contact the spiritual is a waste of time and an impediment to solving the problem.
     
  19. Sutekh

    Sutekh Active Member
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    I primarily believe that Magick can cause change among situations and that of Aeons. Do I personally practice magick? Yes I do, I practice Magick to cause and manipulate a situation that does not suite me. I do not however use magick for impulsive or trivial things. Magick can be addicting in both ways. It empowers you, and at times it does not empower you.
     
    #19 Sutekh, Jul 11, 2016
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  20. Adramelek

    Adramelek Setian
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    I find this to be awesome, you, a Satanist are in a position to be a positive influence on young minds. :smileycat: I was a boy scout for about a year when I was 12. I also understand about reputations. At three places of employment I was rather open about my beliefs, I didn't wear them on my sleeve but my co-workers knew about me. I was well respected because I did my job and I was a friend to all my co-workers. However, at a couple of other places a was fired for being too open about my beliefs, I think it just depends on the people you work with. At this time I am self-employed so that works out good. I look upon my Self as a temple of Set, and my allegiance and dedication to my own Setian Being and to the Prince of Darkness far outweighs what mundane society might think about me. But the next time I might go to work for another company I will be keeping my beliefs and politics to myself. ;)
     
    #20 Adramelek, Jul 11, 2016
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