Sigh. Where do I start?
No wishy-washy irrelevant responses to any of this please. I don't want to hear anything about "God's plan...", or "our human minds are imperfect..." unless it is actually relevant. Please don't waste my time reading meaningless responses. I'd like to see clear, logical rebuttals only.
I'm afraid that kind of opening statement is only appropriate on Yahoo Answers where you'd get all kinds of juvenile flak from 50 year old men for you below statements. Here, you'll get a full spectrum of many, many ideas, including some of the so-called rubbish you expressly wish not for. (don't worry, you won't get much of the "god is not impressed... blah blah.... god still loves you... blah blah... god bless you... blah..."; that kind of thing isn't really tolerated here, even by Christian members.)
Now then, my proof. This does not apply to all versions of "God", as it makes the assumptions that God is omnipotent and benevolent. However, this means it does disprove many major religions, including Christianity. Here it is:
Let's get this show on the road!
Logic must apply to God.
In order to create anything, there must be at least one process involved to create it. (By doing nothing, you cannot create anything.) Therefore, if God created the universe, then he must have used logic in order to complete the process(es) involved correctly.
Likewise, God could not have created the universe without logic existing, then created logic because - as with the previous example - creating anything requires logic. So in order to create logic, you would need to already have logic. Therefore logic could not have been created.
I could go on into even more depth, but hopefully you get the idea.
Problem. Scripture doesn't actually say anything about various concepts, like logic, not existing before Genesis Chapter One; only a physical world. If the Bible is the way the world is, I have a strong feeling that the laws of nature, such as logic and mathematics, already existed, and God used them to create a world that he could call his own. After all, many of the so-called 'miracles' of the Old Testament have been scientifically verified, such as the Exodus from Egypt. (See "The Exodus Decoded"; VERY interesting and thought-provoking) To quote aforementioned documentary, "God doesn't suspend the laws of nature; he manipulates them."
Evil exists.
I do not care whether evil is the "lack of God", or the "work of Satan", or "created by man", or any other red herring you can think of. All I am interested in here is the fact that evil - whatever you want to define it as - exists.
In order to remove evil from the world, God must want to remove it, and be able to remove it.
But God does not remove all evil from the world. Therefore:
God does not want to remove evil.
And/or God is unable to remove evil.
Evil is a concept that is 100% man-made and to be frank, I don't believe in it, nor do I believe in "good". In nature, neither of these concepts exist, only cause and effect. I would expect even the lesser gods to be the same way, above such petty human conceptions, let alone Iluvatar himself.
D) As for removing it, this is impossible, and God never claims that he will be able to. (here's a rebuke of my own towards a certain canonized book) Even if the New Earth comes about and there is pure peace for ever, eventually someone would get bored and start the whole mess over again. The only way to prevent that from happening is to pretty much send all of humanity to Hell, and I doubt God is willing to do that.
Not to mention the plea of Abraham for Sodom where his nephew (I think) Lot lived. Abraham says, "If there are fifty good men there, would you spare it?" And God replies, "Even for the fifty's sake I would spare it." And the dialogue goes on until God states that "Even if there were only ten good men there, I would spare the city for their sake."
...I'm starting to get the feeling you haven't actually read much of the Bible.
If God does not want to remove evil, then he is not benevolent.
Never claimed to be.
(And/or) If God is unable to remove evil, then he is not omnipotent.
Again, he never claimed to be.
If God is not benevolent, and/or God is not omnipotent, then the Christian God does not exist.
QED.
I'm afraid that "If... then...." statement doesn't work here, and here's why. "The Christian God does not exist if and only if he is neither benevolent nor omnipotent."
In Genesis, God frequently has to go and see for himself things he hears, implying a lack of omnipresence right there. He also floods the world, turns Sodom and Gomorrah upside-down while dropping asteroids on them, orders genocide (watch, I'm going to get all kinds of flak for that one
) and sets down laws for the Jews that would to a modern person seem barbaric, such as the requirement to kill any rebellious child. (Or, heck, the whole circumcision thing... which STILL makes absolutely no sense to me!) Not to mention in the prologue to the Book of Job God lets his jester Satan cause all kinds of bad things to happen to the protagonist bearing the book's name while sparing his life. Going just from those, I don't think God ever meant to be "benevolent".
Basically, while I do respect your decision not to believe the Christian God exists and I by no means am trying to make you believe he does, the reasons you've provided are full of holes and not really backed up by actual Scriptual support and indeed demonstrate a lack of understanding if not a demonstration of never having read the Bible. In other words, you haven't provided tangible proof at all; you've just demonstrated a significant lack of understanding of Christian lore and philosophy likely based on what you've heard the fundies say, and many Christians here as well as Christians I've met outside the internet disagree wholeheartedly with fundies.
As for using logic... human logic is puny and small. Our minds are NOTHING, even less than a flea's mind compared to ours, compared to what I'd expect even from a lesser god like Hermes or Osiris, let alone a God-King like Odin or Amon-Ra, let alone from a singular god like Brama (spelling, Hindus?) let alone from Iluvatar himself! I have a feeling that our logic cannot possibly fathom it, as it can barely fathom itself. Heck, how many times have you looked for something in your own house, exhausting all possibilities, before finding out that it was in your hand all along? Or forgetting your walet at work which is 30 miles away from your house?
The inability of humans to use their powers of observation to the fullest never ceases to amaze me. I don't think it can even be done by a normal person to observe something they don't really understand at all, such as "before" the Big Bang.
