God talking

[Muffled]

well.....God spoke to Moses.....and shortly after....
3000 people died by his command

and if the prophecy about the Carpenter should unfold as believed.....
many more will die
(something about blood flowing to the reins of the horses)

I believe in a way Hitler did hear from God. The person was put in jail and later executed. I remember now that his name was Bonhoeffer.

 

[BilliardsBall]

What you are saying is not a contradiction. It just means you are separating something that scripture does not seperate at all



Romans isn't as hard as revelations. I personally feel you (all) make spiritual text more complicated than it needs to be to have the same affect.



Let me break up my point. You're stuck on something I corrected you on a lot.

I said: the Bible says works and faith consider in relation to ones salvation

It's your preference to see works as result of salvation. Neither what we are saying is wrong. You just hsve a different preference in seeing works in relation to ones salvation. Nothing wrong with that.



You gotta address the scripture I posted first.

Works are NOT required to be saved; it is NOT for salvation. It'd not forced.

It's part of that gift.

You receive it
You use it
You love it
You say thank you

I never said salvation is given by works. You must read what I am saying. I'm picking your post out little by little.

Salvation is works and faith together (You MUST address the scriptures I'm giving you)

I never said salvation is works

Please read my posts actively cause I'm repeatedly correcting you on what I said and hoping you address the scriptures and make new points relating to what I'm saying.

I think we agree 100%, with a slight difference!

Since the Bible says God's gifts are irrevocable, and since Jesus said those who trust Him for salvation can never perish in Hell, anyone who receives the gift of salvation has it forever, even if they're not thankful for it. I've given gifts to thankful people and thankless people without taking them back. Sometimes I gift an atheist on this forum with a lot of time to answer them, but they curse me. That doesn't delete the post I gifted to them.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I meant to ask, Why is the book of James not relevant to scripture?

If some books are relevant and others are not, then the to me, it seems like youre using the bible to correlate with what you already believe rather than being comfortable with stuff in the bible of the fact its in there and grow from there. Religious text arent supposed to be comfortable. It makes you question and grow not accept what makes sense to you and disregard the rest.

The works talked about in James doesnt contradict the rest of scripture. Works is all throughout scripture in relation to faith and hence salvation. Not as and not for but part of.

He is just emphasising faith without works is dead. You need faith to be saved. Your faith is dead (there is no value) without the works that go with it. Hence why they are interconnected.

I dont take the bible vertatum (or any book for that matter). I read it and think it through without depending on other peoples words and translations to understand it for myself. Too much dependency means idoism.

The book of James is absolutely scripture. I've given many sermons in church, including from this marvelous book. However, if you spend a little time googling James on the faith/works discussion, you will find that cults use it to say we must work to keep our salvation while better interpreters help us understand why, James, Paul and the other 10 NT writers agree on assurance and salvation as a permanent, irrevocable gift.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The book of James is absolutely scripture. I've given many sermons in church, including from this marvelous book. However, if you spend a little time googling James on the faith/works discussion, you will find that cults use it to say we must work to keep our salvation while better interpreters help us understand why, James, Paul and the other 10 NT writers agree on assurance and salvation as a permanent, irrevocable gift.

Hmm. (I read it all; wasting time) If scripure works as a unit, and Im quoting verbatum, Im not quite changing it to be incorrect or misinterpreted.

I just find James, the Gospels, the whole OT (rather), and I think Romans and Titus (I found out) to be a good source of understanding works interrelated to the gift and faith to which works are based on.

But to have one but not the other, thats like having a gift, opening it, but never using it because you feel gifts arent mean to be used just received.

Hebrews does talk more about faith than some of the other books Ive read. I know James wouldnt be the only book that uses works interelated not seperate and not a foundation of faith.

The prepositions are very important in what I say.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Hmm. (I read it all; wasting time) If scripure works as a unit, and Im quoting verbatum, Im not quite changing it to be incorrect or misinterpreted.

I just find James, the Gospels, the whole OT (rather), and I think Romans and Titus (I found out) to be a good source of understanding works interrelated to the gift and faith to which works are based on.

But to have one but not the other, thats like having a gift, opening it, but never using it because you feel gifts arent mean to be used just received.

Hebrews does talk more about faith than some of the other books Ive read. I know James wouldnt be the only book that uses works interelated not seperate and not a foundation of faith.

The prepositions are very important in what I say.

I understand, but the use of the gift is eternal life in Heaven. That is a MASSIVE, well-used gift!

 

[Thief]

I understand, but the use of the gift is eternal life in Heaven. That is a MASSIVE, well-used gift!

let me poke at that.....just a little

eternal life as a gift....?
or a state of grace ....?

seems to me, that item cannot be granted to just anyone

and if dealt.....can it be taken away?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I understand, but the use of the gift is eternal life in Heaven. That is a MASSIVE, well-used gift!

Yes. I get that. I don't seperate the two. That's like separating god.

 

[BilliardsBall]

let me poke at that.....just a little

eternal life as a gift....?
or a state of grace ....?

seems to me, that item cannot be granted to just anyone

and if dealt.....can it be taken away?

Good questions you've asked:

1) It can be granted to anyone/everyone
2) Recipients must request it
3) It cannot be revoked, the scriptures say "...the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" and "salvation is a gift".

 

[Thief]

Good questions you've asked:

1) It can be granted to anyone/everyone
2) Recipients must request it
3) It cannot be revoked, the scriptures say "...the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" and "salvation is a gift".

If God and heaven are in charge of the salvation.....
then eternal life is reserved for those who can walk with grace

not everyone asking shall receive

 

[BilliardsBall]

If God and heaven are in charge of the salvation.....
then eternal life is reserved for those who can walk with grace

not everyone asking shall receive

A gift is something I get for free that another paid for. The Bible says God's gifts, by the way, are irrevocable. I can show you over 100 Bible verses explaining the free gift. Do you have any verses that say "walk with grace or lose salvation"? All I can recall are verses that say salvation is by the grace of God, via trusting Jesus.

 

[Thief]

A gift is something I get for free that another paid for. The Bible says God's gifts, by the way, are irrevocable. I can show you over 100 Bible verses explaining the free gift. Do you have any verses that say "walk with grace or lose salvation"? All I can recall are verses that say salvation is by the grace of God, via trusting Jesus.

so....the Fallen Angels shall live forever.....

 

[BilliardsBall]

so....the Fallen Angels shall live forever.....

If "living" is in eternal prison, yes.

 

[Thief]

If "living" is in eternal prison, yes.

looks like a fresh op....
let me know if you go for it