God loves gays and lesbians

[rational experiences]

Humans name names as words by thinking. As humans.

Humans speak their language. Words of humans make claims.

It's described as human thinking telling stories claiming you know.

Science says it's proven by humans machine science. I can cause artificial changes by stopping reactions. I put substances together myself.

I name it inventive science.

You can't say it's creation as you are changing creation.

Who named God God?

Thinking humans did.

So who past judgements?

Theists did. To change God.

Whose the bad God in that scenario?

Human Theists are.

Changing what natural forms supported human life.

We live by adult human sex.

Pretty basic.

Every human caused presence a baby by two human adults. Terms a parent.

So every baby as non presence first innocent is legal.

Sperm ovary the same conception. Outcome...grown. natural.

Therefore humans don't own control being human. Two parents by natural law have sex to own a baby.

No law broken. Yet suddenly human behaviour changes.

No longer genitalia aware. Self conscious. Each human.

The warning. You see observe what is created. Changed consciousness is proven.

Men humans changed God by scientific judgements the legal reasoning.

The evil God said humanity was man Theist scientist. Pretty basic known advice.

Jesus carpenter was tectonic earthquake. Said men of science caused it.

Origin of man's sin was the scientist man. Taught. Sink holes. Same as earths sun attack history. Temple pyramid.

Man blamed Jesus yet Jesus wasn't man's original sin.

Was the con of theism... sophist.

Therefore if human men haven't yet concluded they have been coercing family by group tactic ever since we lived. You are obviously not very intelligent.

Physical sex is a choice.

In natural law two women in sex dont produce a baby.

The same as two men.

Therefore doubt a legal summarisation about why changed consciousness was seen. Laws of consciousness changed.

Natural law still the same legal stated as two humans man woman produced babies.

Was why it was written as a legal verdict witnessed. To state it's known that Satanism...humans science changed gods support in the heavens where consciousness abided.

To prove legally hence it had caused all genetic changes also. Illness. Blood bone flesh cell living conditions in heavens.

Why it was documented as legal proof supporting genetic change.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

What do you mean by “wrong” I am admitting my ignorance on this topic

That's how you are selling it.

From where I sit though, it rather seems that you are, as @KWED would say, "stuck between an ideological rock and a hard place". Which is especially made clear with the "options" you give.

From where I sit, it looks like you are very uncomfortable with what your bible says on the topic.
But you can't bring yourself to disagree with the bible or say god is wrong or say the bible is the work of men and not reflective of god.

So you claim this "ignorance" as if that absolves you from moral responsability.

It´s obvious that in the context of the text it’s using a literally tool , the author is using exaggerated language, this is obvious from the fact that people form that time didn’t really condemn gay people to death. (Which means that they didn’t interpreted the text in the same literal way that you do)

Keep telling yourself that.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It´s hard to admit, but the bible seems to condemn homosexuality so ether

1 it is wrong to be gay (or do gay stuff) perhaps gay people really need to make an effort and go against their “feelings”

2 its ok to be gay according to the bible and I am just misunderstanding the verses

3 the bible is not inspired (or at least those particular verses)

I would like to pick option 2, but intellectually I really cant find a way to do it.

It seems to me that someone would have to do some pretty wild mental gymnastics to say that Christianity should forbid homosexuality in light of Romans 14 (each person is judged according to their own understanding and their own conscience) and 1 Timothy 4 (those who forbid people to join in marriage have been "deceived by demons")... or 1 John 4:16 (those who live in love live in God).

 

[Wildswanderer]

People get morality from lots of different sources. Why would atheists have no morality? Do you think your religion has the corner on morality? Look around. That's hardly true.

No, they have zero basis from morality.
I'm not saying that olan atheist can't be moral.... It has nothing to do with wether they believe has any basis for morality.

 

[Sand Dancer]

No, they have zero basis from morality.
I'm not saying that olan atheist can't be moral.... It has nothing to do with wether they believe has any basis for morality.

Are you of the opinion that anyone who is not a conservative Christian has no basis for morality? Do you think there is no basis for morality outside of the bible? What about all of the cultures that don't use the bible?

 

[Shaul]

Don't think it has anything to do with not being a sinner sense we are all considered sinners, is one greater than another, are sexual sins greater than stealing, murder etc,?

Sinner isn't a qualitative state, it is a bifurcated one

 

[Shaul]

It requires the unstated assumption that God is a competent creator who is capable of having his creation reflect his will.

I reject the assumption. G_d could certainly be displaying competency by allowing His beloved creation to reflect its own limited will.

 

[pearl]

Sinner isn't a qualitative state, it is a bifurcated one

Is one sin greater than another? It would seem, no.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I reject the assumption. G_d could certainly be displaying competency by allowing His beloved creation to reflect its own limited will.

So you think that homosexuality is consistent with God's will.

 

[leroy]

That's how you are selling it.

From where I sit though, it rather seems that you are, as @KWED would say, "stuck between an ideological rock and a hard place".

Sure, all world views have these type of hard problems.

From where I sit, it looks like you are very uncomfortable with what your bible says on the topic.
But you can't bring yourself to disagree with the bible or say god is wrong or say the bible is the work of men and not reflective of god.

I am open to the idea that the bible might be wrong or man made…… just haven’t seen enough evidence.

The doctrine of divine inspiration is based on 3 premises

1 Jesus is a good reliable source

2 Jesus claimed / implied that “the scriptures” where inspired

3 the current old testament corresponds to what Jesus labeled as “the scriptures”

Íf you show that any of the 3 premises is wrong , you would falsify the doctrine of divine inspiration ….

Uuu see this is falsifiable , it´s not like I am saying something vague like “there is no evidence” but never explain what I mean by “evidence”

So you claim this "ignorance" as if that absolves you from moral responsability.

What moral responsability am I avoiding?

 

[leroy]

It seems to me that someone would have to do some pretty wild mental gymnastics to say that Christianity should forbid homosexuality in light of Romans 14 (each person is judged according to their own understanding and their own conscience) and 1 Timothy 4 (those who forbid people to join in marriage have been "deceived by demons")... or 1 John 4:16 (those who live in love live in God).

It is my understanding that no Christian wants to “forbid” homosexuality // it is just that priests don’t want to celebrate Gay weddings … which quite frankly they have every right to decide which weddings to celebrate and which weddings to celebrate and which weddings not to celebrate.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Are you of the opinion that anyone who is not a conservative Christian has no basis for morality? Do you think there is no basis for morality outside of the bible? What about all of the cultures that don't use the bible?

Where did you get that idea?
Most people believe in a higher power. Only about 3 percent in the US for example identify as atheist.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Where did you get that idea?
Most people believe in a higher power. Only about 3 percent in the US for example identify as atheist.

You didn't give any reason, so I thought I would ask. I didn't assume. Is a higher power other than the Hebrew god just as moral as he is? Are all gods moral? I don't think so.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Where did you get that idea?
Most people believe in a higher power. Only about 3 percent in the US for example identify as atheist.

In 2016, 79% of U.S. adults said God is "something [they] believe in"; 10% said it was "something [they're] not sure about"; and 11% said they didn't believe in God.

How Many Americans Believe in God?

 

[Wildswanderer]

You didn't give any reason, so I thought I would ask. I didn't assume. Is a higher power other than the Hebrew god just as moral as he is? Are all gods moral? I don't think so.

I didn't quantify the exact boundaries of morality... The question was whether they have any basis for morality.

 

[Truthseeker]

Well aggressive people didn’t choose to be that way ether, but they are expected to go against their own nature and try to avoid violent actions.

So if you accept the premise that it is wrong to be gay, then gay people are expected to fight against their own nature and avoid doing gay stuff.

It shouldn’t be a big of a deal, we all fight against our nature we all do things that “we don’t like” or avoid things that we would like to do.

It's not that it is wrong to be gay exactly, I think you'll agree. You worded that a little awkwardly, I think.

 

[Messianic Israelite]

God loves gays and lesbians. It is not a sin. They do not harm anyone. They only love each other. God is love. Because of this i know God is not against same sex relationship

Hi Starlight. Good afternoon. That's your opinion. And you are not a Mighty One. But Yahweh, the true Mighty One, has said in His Word that homosexuality isn't simply sinful, but an abomination. Yahweh hates sin. People that engage in bestiality also call that love. Are you going to tell me that Yahweh loves those who have sex with animals? Or who have incest? Isn't that love? Yahweh is love - you are perverting and twisting the scriptures to your own downfall. True love means to hate the evil, and love the good (Amos 5:15). It doesn't mean to love the evil and hate the good. And homosexuality is harmful. HIV is harmful to other people and those who have it. And homosexuals are plagued by it.

 

[AdamjEdgar]

Do you think there is no basis for morality outside of the bible? What about all of the cultures that don't use the bible?

And this question is exactly the reason why few religious denominations adequately understand the new covenant.

The new covenant says, God will write his statues and laws on our hearts and in our minds...it's does not say do away with the 10 Commandments (moral law).

Those who aren't Christian know what right and wrong is because God put his laws inside of each one of us. That is the point!

Seventh Day Adventists are one of the few religious denominations who understand this Bible doctrine...that is exactly why they keep the Sabbath and not Sunday. Your question has highlighted the fundamental flaw in mainstream religion in keeping Sunday on this topic.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hi Starlight. Good afternoon. That's your opinion. And you are not a Mighty One. But Yahweh, the true Mighty One, has said in His Word that homosexuality isn't simply sinful, but an abomination. Yahweh hates sin. People that engage in bestiality also call that love. Are you going to tell me that Yahweh loves those who have sex with animals? Or who have incest? Isn't that love? Yahweh is love - you are perverting and twisting the scriptures to your own downfall. True love means to hate the evil, and love the good (Amos 5:15). It doesn't mean to love the evil and hate the good. And homosexuality is harmful. HIV is harmful to other people and those who have it. And homosexuals are plagued by it.

Comparing homosexuality to bestality and incest is just offensive and not a good way to discuss this subject. Also, homosexuality doesn't cause HIV. Get a grip.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Are you of the opinion that anyone who is not a conservative Christian has no basis for morality? Do you think there is no basis for morality outside of the bible? What about all of the cultures that don't use the bible?

Personally speaking, I don't believe that people need the Christian God in their lives to behave morally and to know what is right or wrong. In my opinion, Penn Jillette was spot on when he implied that people don't need God in their lives to be a moral person or to prevent them from committing unspeakable acts of violence (read his quote here). I know many unbelievers who are far more moral than the majority of Christians I know. I'm sure you've met unbelievers like that too. FWIW, my life (which includes my mental health and emotional well-being) has vastly improved since I renounced my Christian faith and belief in God. As I said yesterday in another thread (read here), I turned my life around for the better and I began to heal emotionally only after I renounced my belief and faith in God. In fact, it was the absolute best decision that I've ever made for myself and my sole regret is that I should have done it years ago rather than continuing to hold onto the false hope I had in God. I could have spared myself years of emotional pain and depression.