God is Holy, Man is fallen and needs salvation

[Sgt. Pepper]

Fascinating.

A conversation about slavery is going to be difficult for you, then.

It's almost as if the person you're replying to doesn't want to admit that he is mistaken, and he's trying to find any kind of excuse to avoid admitting that you're correct and he isn't. He's chasing his tail and getting nowhere fast. Of course, I could be mistaken and I'm misunderstanding his replies to you, but I don't think I'm misunderstanding him. He's engaging in a circular argument, IMO.

 

[Left Coast]

Is it ok for a person to buy/pay money for a baby or child by adoption and whoever I pay to receive that money?

Again - children are not the property of parents. Adoption is expensive because it pays for the fees charged by lawyers, social workers, etc. for their time.

So again - is it moral for someone to own another person as property? This should not be a fraught or trick question.

 

[Left Coast]

It's almost as if the person you're replying to doesn't want to admit that he is mistaken, and he's trying to find any kind of excuse to avoid admitting that you're correct and he isn't. He's chasing his tail and getting nowhere fast. Of course, I could be mistaken and I'm misunderstanding his replies to you, but I don't think I'm misunderstanding him. He's engaging in a circular argument, IMO.

It is very sad to watch Christians try to come up with excuses and rationalizations for what is near universally understood to be deeply immoral and abhorrent, because it is justified in their holy book. In any other situation they would readily acknowledge the horrors of slavery. But because of their preconceived allegiance to the Bible, they have to try to come up with some way of justifying what's in it.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Again - children are not the property of parents. Adoption is expensive because it pays for the fees charged by lawyers, social workers, etc. for their time.

So again - is it moral for someone to own another person as property? This should not be a fraught or trick question.

Don’t dodge the question about adoption because the it’s same process for buying property.

 

[ElishaElijah]

It is very sad to watch Christians try to come up with excuses and rationalizations for what is near universally understood to be deeply immoral and abhorrent, because it is justified in their holy book. In any other situation they would readily acknowledge the horrors of slavery. But because of their preconceived allegiance to the Bible, they have to try to come up with some way of justifying what's in it.

Nice try, there are horrors of slavery but people are bought and sold through adoption like property, children are considered property according to the law until they reach a certain age. There are laws protecting children from abuse as well but children’s rights are limited and parents make their decisions for them. So yes this is moral and right.

 

[Left Coast]

Don’t dodge the question about adoption because the it’s same process for buying property.

I didn't dodge the question at all. Don't project.

Adoption is not purchasing property. Adoptive parents have to pay money because they are paying for the fees of lawyers, social workers, etc. who help to coordinate the transfer of guardianship to them.

Since we're not dodging questions here I'll ask yet again: is it moral to own another person as property?

 

[ElishaElijah]

I didn't dodge the question at all. Don't project.

Adoption is not purchasing property. Adoptive parents have to pay money because they are paying for the fees of lawyers, social workers, etc. who help to coordinate the transfer of guardianship to them.

Since we're not dodging questions here I'll ask yet again: is it moral to own another person as property?

#45

 

[Left Coast]

#45

#46

 

[ElishaElijah]

#46

The answer is sometimes yes sometimes no

 

[Left Coast]

The answer is sometimes yes sometimes no

Yikes.

That is deeply disturbing and if you were ever enslaved, I'd argue that you should be freed. It's unfortunate, IMO, that your religion does not teach you the same. Thankfully most folks nowadays don't agree with you.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Adoption is not purchasing property. Adoptive parents have to pay money because they are paying for the fees of lawyers, social workers, etc. who help to coordinate the transfer of guardianship to them.

Do the sellers make a profit?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Yikes.

That is deeply disturbing and if you were ever enslaved, I'd argue that you should be freed. It's unfortunate, IMO, that your religion does not teach you the same. Thankfully most folks nowadays don't agree with you.

Actually the law agrees with me and most responsible parents do

 

[Left Coast]

Do the sellers make a profit?

Presumably (although a lot of non-profit agencies or people doing pro bono work probably make little or none), and making a profit is not inherently immoral, IMO. Owning another person as property (which children are not) is.

 

[Left Coast]

Actually the law agrees with me and most responsible parents do

Actually the law DOES NOT agree with you, lol (in the US at least, as well as most developed democracies). Slavery in the US is illegal. And most people are against it.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Presumably (although a lot of non-profit agencies or people doing pro bono work probably make little or none), and making a profit is not inherently immoral, IMO. Owning another person as property (which children are not) is.

Non profit doesn’t mean they don’t make money off the sale. Also children are considered property of the parents or custodians for a time.
What we saw play out and still going on in Public Schools across our Country is the government believes they own the children and can educate and do what they want with children without the parents permission.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Actually the law DOES NOT agree with you, lol (in the US at least, as well as most developed democracies. Slavery in the US is illegal. And most people are against it.

What are you talking about “slavery” now lol. You can’t be serious We weren’t talking the “illegal slavery”.

 

[Left Coast]

Non profit doesn’t mean they don’t make money off the sale.

I agree and I didn't say that. I work for a non-profit.

Also children are considered property of the parents

No, again, they are not.

or custodians for a time.

A custodian (or more specifically, legal guardian) is not an owner.

 

[Left Coast]

What are you talking about “slavery” now lol. You can’t be serious

We've been talking about slavery since the beginning of the thread. The whole point of this thread is to discuss slavery, is it not? Do you not know what slavery is?

The gaslighting here is fascinating.

 

[ElishaElijah]

We've been talking about slavery since the beginning of the thread. The whole point of this thread is to discuss slavery, is it not? Do you not know what slavery is?

The gaslighting here is fascinating.

No it isn’t all about slavery and the Bible describes different types of slavery. You asked a yes or no question about people and property and didn’t distinguish what you meant by that.
Now that you did distinguish that about illegal slavery, then yes it’s wrong.
Not sure why you didn’t say that from the get go

 

[ElishaElijah]

A custodian (or more specifically, legal guardian) is not an owner.

What are they? When someone asks me whose children are these? I say they are mine, can you disown your children, disavow? So it’s in that sense, yes I own my children, they are mine. Ultimately they are Gods possession, as with everyone, He is the owner and Creator.