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God is a Duality not a Trinity

Repox

Truth Seeker
I propose God to be a duality. In heaven, the two eternal Gods are in a sphere surrounded by twelve angels. They have never and will never be separated, they are equal in power, glory, and holiness. Before the two Gods created angels, they were companions. The two Gods came into the world as Jesus; there is no son of God. Instead of accepting two Gods, followers of Jesus interpreted them as father and son. As evidence, there are no references to the son of God in prior gospels, the ones preceding the four NT gospels. Son of God and crucifixion stories were added 30 to 40 years later by Jesus movement people. The Trinity is illogical.You cannot propose the Trinity to be eternal when the son of God had a beginning. As for the Holy Spirit, it is found with the two Gods and Angels in heaven, not in our material world.
 
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lostwanderingsoul

Well-Known Member
Jesus referred to "His Father in Heaven". They are two separate beings. You are rightthat there is no third person to make up a trinity.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
Jesus referred to "His Father in Heaven". They are two separate beings. You are rightthat there is no third person to make up a trinity.
I have problems with the four gospels, I think they were written by men who had accepted son of God stories. If you research prior gospels you don't find son of God stories. I know it is not conventional to doubt the truthfulness of the four gospels, but it is possible. It requires some research into the evolution of ideas for the Jesus movement following the death of Jesus.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
So, you're a polytheist?
Not in the traditional sense. The two Gods are in one sphere or in one body. I don't think the idea fits into any religion or tradition. It is not in the OT, so I don't have much Bible evidence. There is an interesting idea in science in which everything in nature can be conceived as a duality. It begins with species: two wings, two legs, two eyes and then in the atomic world: matter and anti-matter, protons and neutrons, etc. You can come up with a long list of dualities everywhere In the universe and science.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am heterosexual this is Penn state metaphysics. God the father God the son God the father God the son God the father God the son.... Its sooooo ****ing gay.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I actually find this kind of all boys club metaphysics very unhealthy. Since Mary Magdalene is the founder of Christianity I think sticking with a Trinitarian view with the unnamed holy ghost appropriate enough. I am curious as to the thread of thinking in the elimination of females in certain traditions and the elimination of male in others a rather curious thinking I don't understand but It says a lot.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
I propose God to be a duality. In heaven, the two eternal Gods are in a sphere surrounded by twelve angels. They have never and will never be separated, they are equal in power, glory, and holiness. Before the two Gods created angels, they were companions. The two Gods came into the world as Jesus; there is no son of God. Instead of accepting two Gods, followers of Jesus interpreted them as father and son. As evidence, there are no references to the son of God in prior gospels, the ones preceding the four NT gospels. Son of God and crucifixion stories were added 30 to 40 years later by Jesus movement people. The Trinity is illogical.You cannot propose the Trinity to be eternal when the son of God had a beginning. As for the Holy Spirit, it is found with the two Gods and Angels in heaven, not in our material world.

When I started reading the Bible, I looked at it from a scientific view. From this, the Trinity is explained by the electromagnetic spectrum. The EMS was created on the 1st day. It explains the Trinity, i.e. no one would be able to explain EMS in ancient times, so it was called the Trinity. This is the way God communicates with us. If one reads the Bible, the Trinity works using the frequencies of the EMS.

ElectromagneticSpectrum.png


The Holy Spirit is radio, microwave and infrared light. That little voice in your head that you hear sometimes is THS. The Son or Jesus is visible light. We have seen him in the past and will see him again the future. The Father is the higher frequencies of ultraviolet, x-ray and gamma ray. Gamma rays caused us to have shorter life expectancy after Noah's Flood.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
When I started reading the Bible, I looked at it from a scientific view. From this, the Trinity is explained by the electromagnetic spectrum. The EMS was created on the 1st day. It explains the Trinity, i.e. no one would be able to explain EMS in ancient times, so it was called the Trinity. This is the way God communicates with us. If one reads the Bible, the Trinity works using the frequencies of the EMS.

ElectromagneticSpectrum.png


The Holy Spirit is radio, microwave and infrared light. That little voice in your head that you hear sometimes is THS. The Son or Jesus is visible light. We have seen him in the past and will see him again the future. The Father is the higher frequencies of ultraviolet, x-ray and gamma ray. Gamma rays caused us to have shorter life expectancy after Noah's Flood.

God's DNA (duality) is found with His creation. There are many examples in nature of duality: two wings on birds, two arms, two legs, two feet, two sides of the brain, two mating pairs, etc. There are many more examples of duality in our material world, just look at chemistry (opposites reacting), and physical laws (gravity and anti-gravity), etc. You cannot deny the importance of duality throughout the universe. Then, of course, we have mathematical formulas (odd and even division of numbers), balanced equations, Then, for physical laws there are numerous applications of duality. As an example, for gravity, there are force attractions between two bodies. You can come up with a long list of dualities everywhere In the universe and science.etc.. Examples of duality are too numerous to mention. Why wouldn’t nature reflect its creator?
 
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Rise

Well-Known Member
I have problems with the four gospels, I think they were written by men who had accepted son of God stories. If you research prior gospels you don't find son of God stories. I know it is not conventional to doubt the truthfulness of the four gospels, but it is possible. It requires some research into the evolution of ideas for the Jesus movement following the death of Jesus.
There are no "prior gospels".
There are many documents of antiquity that claim to be a gospel, but by any measure of historical authenticity they can lay no claim to being authentic representations of what Jesus said and did. They all come in no earlier than the 2nd or 3rd century, whereas the authentic gospels can be shown to originate in the 1st century.

You will also find no "evolution" in the ideas surrounding Jesus if you look at the earliest church documents and written accounts. Clement, Papias, Polycarp, the Didache, Ireneous, etc. From the gospels to the 2nd generation church, all the way to the council of Nicea, you see the same truth about Jesus being declared.

I propose God to be a duality.

On what basis do you propose any of this? Your own reason?

The Bible tells us that understanding of God comes only through direct revelation by God to us; that man has no ability by his own powers of reason to understand God.
Spiritual things are only discerned by the spirit.
Having said that, the Bible is a record of God's revelation to man about Himself. It is a reliable guide as to whether or not you're on the right track.

Trying to figure out God by your own brainpower is like a blind man trying to discern color: Your brain isn't the right sensor/receptor for receiving and discerning spiritual truth. You're not going to get anywhere trying to arrive at spiritual truth without allowing God's Spirit to speak to yours, either through His written word (the Bible) or through direct revelation (which will never contradict His previous revelation, as reflected in the Bible). For that to happen, you also need enough humility to accept what God says even if it goes against what your mind thinks should be true or your emotions/desires wants to be true.

In fact, the Bible warns that by man putting prideful trust in his own wisdom he will be deceived into the path of destruction because he walks according to his own way. Without humility they are unable to receive the wisdom of God which brings life.
 
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james bond

Well-Known Member
God's DNA (duality) is found with His creation. There are many examples in nature of duality: two wings on birds, two arms, two legs, two feet, two sides of the brain, two mating pairs, etc. There are many more examples of duality in our material world, just look at chemistry (opposites reacting), and physical laws (gravity and anti-gravity), etc. You cannot deny the importance of duality throughout the universe. Then, of course, we have mathematical formulas (odd and even division of numbers), balanced equations, Then, for physical laws there are numerous applications of duality. As an example, for gravity, there are force attractions between two bodies. You can come up with a long list of dualities everywhere In the universe and science.etc.. Examples of duality are too numerous to mention. Why wouldn’t nature reflect its creator?

God's duality is that He's God and man at the same time by the things that you reasoned. We do not disagree on it except for the conclusion. Duality is Jesus when he was here with us long ago. As for the nature of God, it is found in the Trinity (which I believe is the EMS).
 

Reggie Miller

Well-Known Member
Surely this thread was created to attack the Christian dogma of the trinity.

For a person who outright rejects the New Testament it is not surprising that a person would wish to make such an attack, even though the Holy Spirit is present in the Old Testament as well.

God is no duality as mentioned by the OP. The OT clearly portrays God as One. To think otherwise is a grievous sin according to the text.

So if you want your two gods you will need to throw out the OT with the bathwater.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
Surely this thread was created to attack the Christian dogma of the trinity.

For a person who outright rejects the New Testament it is not surprising that a person would wish to make such an attack, even though the Holy Spirit is present in the Old Testament as well.

God is no duality as mentioned by the OP. The OT clearly portrays God as One. To think otherwise is a grievous sin according to the text.

So if you want your two gods you will need to throw out the OT with the bathwater.

The thread is not intended to attack believers, it is intended to inform them of the duality of God. I reject much of the NT because Jesus was God, not the son of God. I believe however much of Revelation is correct, it proposes God's plan for humankind if humans are obedient to His commandments. Inevitably, this causes controversy. I have outlined my case based on historical facts. If you research the topic, you will find there is no mention of the son of God in prior gospels, those preceding the NT four gospels. For the most part, NT Jesus stories are fictitious. I base my conclusion on historical research of prior gospels. Based on documents concerning the Jesus movement, those romantic NT stories were added much later, perhaps 40 years after the death of Jesus. Eventually, four gospels that told similar stories were accepted as truthful depictions for the life of Jesus.

If you research it, you find in prior gospels such as The Gospel of Thomas evidence for Jesus being God. Why did Jesus speak about himself as two persons, and with such familiarity about the "kingdom of God?" It is because Jesus was God, and God is a duality.

I don't find references to the Holy Spirit in the OT except for references to holy God and His angels. Based on what we can observe, there is no evidence for humans being holy. God is holy, we are not. Therefore, the Holy Spirit is not separate from God. To claim otherwise is to infer humans have special HS powers. We know, of course, clerics claim such power. Religions depend on such claims, evangelist revel in such power, and believers rely on the HS to sustain devotions. Claiming is one thing, actually having it is another. My humble opinion is humans are not special. Except for symbolic communication abilities, they are no different than other species. The key for being differentiated from other species is to have a special relationship with God. In order to have such a relationship, one must obey God's Commandments. Obedience is the key to salvation. Satan is the best example of what happens when creatures refuse to obey God.
 
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Repox

Truth Seeker
There are no "prior gospels".
There are many documents of antiquity that claim to be a gospel, but by any measure of historical authenticity they can lay no claim to being authentic representations of what Jesus said and did. They all come in no earlier than the 2nd or 3rd century, whereas the authentic gospels can be shown to originate in the 1st century.

You will also find no "evolution" in the ideas surrounding Jesus if you look at the earliest church documents and written accounts. Clement, Papias, Polycarp, the Didache, Ireneous, etc. From the gospels to the 2nd generation church, all the way to the council of Nicea, you see the same truth about Jesus being declared.



On what basis do you propose any of this? Your own reason?

The Bible tells us that understanding of God comes only through direct revelation by God to us; that man has no ability by his own powers of reason to understand God.
Spiritual things are only discerned by the spirit.
Having said that, the Bible is a record of God's revelation to man about Himself. It is a reliable guide as to whether or not you're on the right track.

Trying to figure out God by your own brainpower is like a blind man trying to discern color: Your brain isn't the right sensor/receptor for receiving and discerning spiritual truth. You're not going to get anywhere trying to arrive at spiritual truth without allowing God's Spirit to speak to yours, either through His written word (the Bible) or through direct revelation (which will never contradict His previous revelation, as reflected in the Bible). For that to happen, you also need enough humility to accept what God says even if it goes against what your mind thinks should be true or your emotions/desires wants to be true.

In fact, the Bible warns that by man putting prideful trust in his own wisdom he will be deceived into the path of destruction because he walks according to his own way. Without humility they are unable to receive the wisdom of God which brings life.

Yes, there are prior gospels. Here is an excellent reference, The Missing Gospels by Darrell. L. Block. According to history, church leaders destroyed as many gospels as they could find which disagreed with the four selected. The Gospel of Thomas is a prior gospel which was used as a reference for the four gospels. You find "many" Jesus sayings from The Gospel of Thomas in the four NT gospels.
 
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Repox

Truth Seeker
God's duality is that He's God and man at the same time by the things that you reasoned. We do not disagree on it except for the conclusion. Duality is Jesus when he was here with us long ago. As for the nature of God, it is found in the Trinity (which I believe is the EMS).
I do not accept God and His human body as duality, it was the way God was able to communicate with His chosen people. The Trinity was invented by church leaders about four hundred years after the events in order to explain Jesus. If you combine God with his son you get duality. However, there is serious logical problem. How can God be eternal when part of him (son) was born. If there is no son, we have an eternal duality. As for the Holy Spirit, it cannot be separated from God.
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
I do not accept God and His human body as duality, it was the way God was able to communicate with His chosen people. The Trinity was invented by church leaders about four hundred years after the events in order to explain Jesus. If you combine God with his son you get duality. However, there is serious logical problem. How can God be eternal when part of him (son) was born. If there is no son, we have an eternal duality. As for the Holy Spirit, it cannot be separated from God.

The duality part was explained to me by one who belonged to the highest level of Christian sect he belonged to. I think he meant it as a way our existence is compared to Jesus' existence. I just searched for it now and I could not find. What it said was, "In Philosophy a system is dualist if it works with two basic constituents to the world or two fundamental ways of existing: e.g. mind and body, matter and soul, being and becoming. In this sense too, dualism has impacted on Christian belief and practice." This seems to fit what he told me about Jesus being mortal and God at the same time.

Thus, I do not think it is a church doctrine like The Trinity. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit all act as separate beings, but are still considered as one.
 

Repox

Truth Seeker
The duality part was explained to me by one who belonged to the highest level of Christian sect he belonged to. I think he meant it as a way our existence is compared to Jesus' existence. I just searched for it now and I could not find. What it said was, "In Philosophy a system is dualist if it works with two basic constituents to the world or two fundamental ways of existing: e.g. mind and body, matter and soul, being and becoming. In this sense too, dualism has impacted on Christian belief and practice." This seems to fit what he told me about Jesus being mortal and God at the same time.

Thus, I do not think it is a church doctrine like The Trinity. The Father, Son and the Holy Spirit all act as separate beings, but are still considered as one.
The philosophical meaning of duality doesn't apply to my idea about God as a duality. According to my definition, both Gods are equal in power, glory and holiness. As an example of how they might appear. Imagine two pearls next to one another. They're permanently attached and yet they each have their own personas.
 

Rise

Well-Known Member
Yes, there are prior gospels. Here is an excellent reference, The Missing Gospels by Darrell. L. Block. According to history, church leaders destroyed as many gospels as they could find which disagreed with the four selected. The Gospel of Thomas is a prior gospel which was used as a reference for the four gospels. You find "many" Jesus sayings from The Gospel of Thomas in the four NT gospels.

You say "according to history" - What history? Show us the historical documentation. Opinions are a dime a dozen; I can throw around endless names of authors who would say that person is absolutely wrong, so the only way to settle this is to look at the evidence directly for ourselves.

Prior to Nicea, when the church gained government protection; every canon list, book compilation, and early church writing we have all attest to the authenticity of the canon we have as being already known and established by the 2nd century. So your entire premise is impossible: If the canon was already established before Nicea, as we can see in history, then we know that the canon could never have been established by force and destruction.

Show us why there is any historical reason to believe there were gospels that were written prior to the four we have in the Bible.
Even the most unbelieving scholar doesn't try to suggest that the gnostic gospels that have been recovered actually represent 1st century works. Nobody even tries to claim that the entirety of thomas is from prior to the 1st century, but only claims parts of it might be based on agreement with the NT. And even saying that much is a minority view, with no historical proof to back it up - it's just speculation.
Only an extreme minority of revisionist historians even attempt to claim the gospel of thomas served as a source for the Biblical gospels; but it's first mention in history is not until the 3rd century when some church fathers mention it as an example of a false gospel. Again, there's no historical basis for what they claim, it's an unsupported theory that conflicts with what we do know about history - We have ample historical witness from the 2nd century of canon lists, church writers, book compilations, and other documents which all attest to the books we have in the NT today, and none of them can give even the faintest hope of attestation to the gospel of thomas.

Most of the gospel of thomas is just requoting NT sources, and the rest is mostly generic nonsense that has no witness in the early church or rest of the Bible.
Where are the early church writings that quote from or are in agreement with the generic parable nonsense found in Thomas? I've encountered no examples of it. If Thomas were a genuine 1st century document, we'd expect the material that is unique to it to be reflected in other early church documentation. Even for the authentic gospels, when dealing with material that is unique to those, we find ample reason from both the OT, other NT books, and early church history, to witness to the truth contained in the four gospels. Thomas is isolated in that sense, with no supporting witness beyond what it has just ripped strait of existing gospels.


The contents of the gospel of thomas also contradict what is found in the NT gospels and epistles, as well as what is found in the OT prophets. God does not contradict Himself. Either thomas is right or all of the NT and OT is wrong. That's an impossible claim when the gospel of thomas doesn't predate either of them.

Some disqualifying major contradictions:
Thomas (13): Jesus corrects them for calling Him "master", and says He is not their master.
Bible: Luke 17:14. John 13:13. Jesus does not correct those who call Him master, but affirms they are right to do so. He also says that no one else on earth is to be considered master, or father, or messiah, because their is only one who can be called that (Matthew 23).

Thomas (51). It claims the resurrection of the dead has already happened, and the new world has already come.
Bible: John 11:24, John 6:39, Luke 14:12-14, Luke 18:8, Luke 18:30, Luke 20:35-36, Acts 1:11, Acts of the Apostles 23:6, Acts of the Apostles 24:15, Mark 10:30, Hebrews 2:5, 2 Peter 3:12-14, Revelation 21:2, 2 Peter 3:3-5, 1 Corinthians 6:14, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-14, 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, 1 Corinthians 15:30-32, 1 John 3:2, Philippians 3:21, Psalms 17:15, Psalms 71:20, Isaiah 26:19, Isaiah 65:17, Hosea 13:14, Revelation 21:4, Isaiah 65:20.
The resurrection of all from the dead, the establishment of a new order, and eventually the recreation of the earth and heavens, are all linked with the return of Jesus. The gospel of thomas is trying to deny the major hope of the Christian faith by saying that which was promised has already come in full.
Ephesians 1:14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, Acts of the Apostles 26:22-23, Romans 8:23, James 1:18,
Except, we see in the Bible, that what we see with Jesus and the early church is only the first fruits and downpayment of what will later be given in full.
This is pictured in the observance of the first fruits of the harvest in the Levitical feasts God gave for observance. It is also reflected in parables given by Jesus where His church is a bride waiting for the consummation of what was promised to them (An engagement is a promise that will be fulfilled at a later day, to which the bride is usually given a downpayment as proof of their promise).

Thomas (77). A pantheistic view of Jesus not found in the Bible.

Thomas (114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."
Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus talked a lot about entering the Kingdom of Heaven, and none of it ever suggested anything have to do with distinctions of sex.


The gospel of thomas fits the pattern one would expect to find of a document that was forged at a later date with the intention of fooling people who are familiar with the authentic historical gospels. Similar to the fabricated epistle of laodicea, where most of the document is spent restating what is found elsewhere or making generic irrelevant statements. The only difference between these two: Laodicea was not written with the intent of spreading lies that contradict the authentic NT documents, but was interested in merely being passed off as historically authentic when it was not. Thomas, in contrast, is clearly written with the intent of putting forth unbiblical lies as truth, because there are several instances where it tries to strike at the heart of foundational issues of who Jesus is, how salvation is achieved, and the prophetic hope we have of Jesus's return - all hidden in the midst of generic statements and Biblical restatements that are meant to give the illusion of authenticity to someone who is not well versed in the scriptures (and to that end, it has succeeded in fooling some modern people who don't know the Bible well or believe it's contents).
 
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allfoak

Alchemist
I propose God to be a duality.
If a man and a woman get married and they have a child, are they a duality or a trinity?
If God the Father has a Son then somewhere in this picture there must be a Mother.
If there are three then i can hardly call them a duality now can i?
 
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