God as Energy and Matter

[Fool]

OK, so do we agree that lila is the action of divine play, and maya the result of lila? The key word here is 'play', and not just action. I believe action alone is called karma. Perhaps one of the resident Hindus can clarify this for us. Anyone?

Brahman, Pure Abstract Intelligence, is dreaming this world. Is dreaming an action? When you awaken from a dream, nothing has changed as per the dream.

I cannot address the other content of your post as it has crossed over into notions of gods.

awaking, dreaming, are all actions. a play is a verb noun. it arises from an action, the verb being play, or playing.

the problem arises with something impotent of itself having the power to change something otherwise about itself. either it can change itself or it can't but it can't be both, dualistic if its the ultimate

it can't act and not act.

it can only be changeless in regards to everything; otherwise if its changing "something" about the ultimate reality of itself, it is changing.


everything and something aren't compatible or synonyms. if all things are changed by the changeless then obviously its not the ALL or ultimate reality.

its like the no thing of buddhism. from no thing comes all formed things. its empty of form but its not empty of action. if it were devoid of action it couldn't form things, destroy things.

 

[godnotgod]

awaking, dreaming, are all actions. a play is a verb noun. it arises from an action, the verb being play, or playing.

When you awaken from a dream, what has changed in the awakened state? The change you experienced in the dream never occurred in reality. Likewise, when Brahman awakens from the dream that is this world, nothing has changed in Brahman. It remains as it always is: Perfection. Perfection has no need of change, so the 'change' is only apparent, 'as if', as the pdf link I posted tells us.

Think of Brahman as the background to existence. We see 'change' occurring against this background of no-change. That is the world, where everything is in flux. But the background is not apparent to most of us, simply because our attention is caught by the foreground, where everything is changing. We have lost touch with the background, and are caught up in the activity of the world, with it's lure of Power, Sensation, and Security, which only lead to suffering.

Here is Zen's take on it, from Shunryū Suzuki-rōshi, San Francisco Zen Center:

"To live in the realm of Buddha Nature means to die as a small being, moment after moment. When we lose our balance we die, and at the same time, to lose our balance, sometimes, means to develop ourselves, or to grow. If we are in perfect balance we cannot live as a small being. So whatever things we see as changing, they are losing their balance. Why everything looks beautiful is because it is something out of balance, but it's background is always in perfect harmony and in this perfect harmony everything exists, losing its balance. This is how everything exists in the realm of big Buddha Nature."

it can only be changeless in regards to everything; otherwise if its changing "something" about the ultimate reality of itself, it is changing.

But what is it about ultimate reality that changes? If it is truly 'Ultimate', then there is no need for any change, as it cannot be any more 'ultimate' than it already is.

its like the no thing of buddhism. from no thing comes all formed things. its empty of form but its not empty of action. if it were devoid of action it couldn't form things, destroy things.

...unless 'all formed things' is a dream; an illusion. The world is a play of Brahman, or No-thing-ness, playing itself as 'the world'. IOW, Brahman is dreaming this world of action and change, and since we are caught up in it, caught up in maya, we act upon it as if it is real.

The Big Bang is an ongoing event in Consciousness, not in Time or Space, and devoid of Causation.

 

[Willamena]

non-dual is simply another word for single, or singularity vs duality. absolute expresses non-dual.

thanks for sharing

Even single has a partner, i.e. not single. Single is not non-dual.

Everyone with a "not" doesn't play the non-dual game.

 

[Thief]

is the brahman, el, allah god a specific physical form of matter, or an energy?

isn't god infinite change and constant?

Let's use the terms dark energy.....dark matter

 

[Thief]

The change you experienced in the dream never occurred in reality.

people change ......and often for the sake of their dreams

 

[godnotgod]

people change ......and often for the sake of their dreams

But the dream itself was not any direct immediate cause of any change. IOW, the dreamer did not awaken to a changed world. The dreamer would have initiated the change after awakening, based on the content of the dream.

 

[Fool]

Single has a partner. Single is not non-dual.

no, single means exactly one; which is what non-dual means. dual means two; which would then make it not two but not necessarily not one, or 3, or trinity

Even single has a partner, i.e. not single. Single is not non-dual.

Everyone with a "not" doesn't play the non-dual game.

non-dual literally means non- = not and dual = two.

like not otherwise

 

[Fool]

But the dream itself was not any direct immediate cause of any change. IOW, the dreamer did not awaken to a changed world. The dreamer would have initiated the change after awakening, based on the content of the dream.

if something goes from dreaming to not dreaming it changes. it works the same way on all levels. if it goes to sleep or wakes up its moving, its changing. if does this vs doesn't do that and then comes back to that which it wasn't doing, it changed.

 

[Willamena]

non-dual literally means non- = not and dual = two

It does, indeed; and A and not A are two.

 

[Fool]

But the dream itself was not any direct immediate cause of any change. IOW, the dreamer did not awaken to a changed world. The dreamer would have initiated the change after awakening, based on the content of the dream.

the change is within itself. it doesn't change things outside/apart from itself. there is nothing apart from it. thus it is constant change with self.


it can't be fixed, or static. it would be definable then.

 

[Fool]

It does, indeed; and A and not A are two.

A and -A are symbols of something, a noun, an attribute along a scale. like active/passive are simply moving from one polarity to another and back.

the movement doesn't cease even though the appearance seems more/less vibrant.


you can't raise something from nothing. you might raise something from no thing but not from nothing.

brahman is self-perpetuating. it is its own cause and effect. it isn't changed by outside influence. there is no outside influence. itself can change.

 

[godnotgod]

the change is within itself. it doesn't change things outside/apart from itself. there is nothing apart from it. thus it is constant change with self.


it can't be fixed, or static. it would be definable then.

'Definable' only if it can be an object. But Brahman, The Absolute, can never be an object of the mind; it is beyond mind.

The 'change' is within the dream, but dreams are illusory. So where is the change in the real world when the dream is over? And if Brahman is dreaming this world, when awakening occurs, this world will vanish. Where is there any evidence of change in Brahman? Brahman does not change because Brahman is Perfection. Why would there be any change in Perfection? Any 'change' you see is only apparent change. Brahman does not actually 'become' the world. Nothing ever 'becomes' something else. Brahman is merely playing at being 'the world' in the dream of Brahman, even playing itself as you and I. It's called Hide and Seek.

 

[godnotgod]

if something goes from dreaming to not dreaming it changes. it works the same way on all levels. if it goes to sleep or wakes up its moving, its changing. if does this vs doesn't do that and then comes back to that which it wasn't doing, it changed.

Buddhism tells us that 'all phenomena are empty of self-nature', so if that is the case, then what is it that is 'changing'? All apparent change is maya, and we are being fooled. Do you see the level of sophistication that maya is?

Brahman is perfect stillness. Still the mind, and you will see this. 'Moving mind' is what you think is 'change'.

Flag is moving;
No, Wind is moving
No, Both are moving
No, MIND is moving!

 

[dfnj]

Think of Time as the god Kronos, and Space as his goddess wife Rhea, the Parents of six universal children, who Kronos swallowed shortly after their birth before they were able to develop within those universal bodies, a

Or use other Jungian archetypes. Not everything about how we experience reality solely exists as objective experience.

 

[Fool]

Buddhism tells us that 'all phenomena are empty of self-nature', so if that is the case, then what is it that is 'changing'? All apparent change is maya, and we are being fooled. Do you see the level of sophistication that maya is?

Brahman is perfect stillness. Still the mind, and you will see this. 'Moving mind' is what you think is 'change'.

Flag is moving;
No, Wind is moving
No, Both are moving
No, MIND is moving!

Buddhism and Hinduism share the doctrine of Anicca or Anitya, that is "nothing lasts, everything is in constant state of change"; however, they disagree on the Anatta doctrine, that is whether soul exists or not.[15] Even in the details of their respective impermanence theories, state Frank Hoffman and Deegalle Mahinda, Buddhist and Hindu traditions differ.[24] Change associated with Anicca and associated attachments produces sorrow or Dukkha asserts Buddhism and therefore need to be discarded for liberation (nibbana), while Hinduism asserts that not all change and attachments lead to Dukkha and some change – mental or physical or self-knowledge – leads to happiness and therefore need to be sought for liberation (moksha).[24] The Nicca(permanent) in Buddhism is anatta (non-soul), the Nitya in Hinduism is atman (soul).[18]


note that it uses the word everything

this agrees with hermeticism

 

[Neuropteron]

is the brahman, el, allah god a specific physical form of matter, or an energy?

isn't god infinite change and constant?

----------
Brahman is according to the Hindus the highest Universal Principle and final cause of all that exists.

El is simply a Semetic word for God.

Allah is another word for God in Arabic.

In other words these terms are largely generic. Philosophical conjuncture, theories and beliefs have been formed around these ideas without anyone being able to come to any sort of concensus.

If we keep in mind that there are "many Gods" (1cor 8:5) we can accept that each one has his/hers alleged attributes and qualities.

However the God who is attributed as inspiring his worshippers to write the Bible is differentuated from other God's by his personal name JHVH (original pronunciantion not known).

In reference to your question:"isn't god infinite change and constant?"
It would depend on which God you are referring to.

Since Brahman is a principle, the answer could be : if this principle is true then yes.

If we are talking about a generic God, the answer is : it depends which one.

If we were talking about the God of the Bible JHVH, then it would be no to change and yes to constant.

Mal 3:6 "I am JHVH, I have not changed"
Rev 7:12 ...the honor ...be to our God forever and ever...

 

[godnotgod]

Buddhism and Hinduism share the doctrine of Anicca or Anitya, that is "nothing lasts, everything is in constant state of change"; however, they disagree on the Anatta doctrine, that is whether soul exists or not.[15] Even in the details of their respective impermanence theories, state Frank Hoffman and Deegalle Mahinda, Buddhist and Hindu traditions differ.[24] Change associated with Anicca and associated attachments produces sorrow or Dukkha asserts Buddhism and therefore need to be discarded for liberation (nibbana), while Hinduism asserts that not all change and attachments lead to Dukkha and some change – mental or physical or self-knowledge – leads to happiness and therefore need to be sought for liberation (moksha).[24] The Nicca(permanent) in Buddhism is anatta (non-soul), the Nitya in Hinduism is atman (soul).[18]

If they both say that 'nothing lasts', then whatever that is that doesn't last, must be illusory, ie; that which does not last comes and goes. Brahman, that which is real, does not come and go because it is not subject to change.

There is no disagreement. Such disagreement is only apparent because of the angle of viewing.

The difference between Hinduism and Buddhism as it relates to change and suffering, is that there is suffering when change occurs when one clings to the things of the past, whereas the change Hinduism refers to may be the same change, but can lead to liberation when those same attachments are let go of. So suffering is due to clinging, while liberation is due to letting go. From the POV of Higher Consciousness. this is relative joy and relative sorrow. Transcending both, one enters into Absolute Joy, for which no opposite exists.

The non-self of Buddhism is the case because of Sunyata, in which 'all phenomena are empty of self-nature', and because of The Law of Dependent Origination. The self, or seeker, is extinguished when Nirvana is attained.

The atman of Hinduism is no more when merged with Brahman, so in reality, the atman does not actually exist, as it is merely a play of Brahman, the only true Reality. It is sometimes said that 'the jiva BECOMES Brahman', but that is not true; Brahman simply comes into play, showing the jiva, which Brahman is playing, to be fictional, just as the character the actor plays is revealed as fiction when the mask is removed.

Jiva-Atman


In Indian philosophy, the jiva-atman – also simply called jiva – is the individual soul or self. It is one of two types of souls, the other being the paramatman or atman, which is the universal and eternal Soul. Jiva-atman is trapped in the earthly body until death, when it is reincarnated.

The term, jiva-atman, comes from the Sanskrit jiv, meaning “to breathe,” and atman, meaning “self.” Therefore, it may be translated to mean “living being.”

The path of yoga can unite jiva-atman (the personal self) with atman (the cosmic Self) by creating and expanding the practitioner's awareness of the oneness of all creation.

https://www.yogapedia.com/definition/5299/jiva-atman

 

[Fool]

----------
Brahman is according to the Hindus the highest Universal Principle and final cause of all that exists.

El is simply a Semetic word for God.

Allah is another word for God in Arabic.

In other words these terms are largely generic. Philosophical conjuncture, theories and beliefs have been formed around these ideas without anyone being able to come to any sort of concensus.

If we keep in mind that there are "many Gods" (1cor 8:5) we can accept that each one has his/hers alleged attributes and qualities.

However the God who is attributed as inspiring his worshippers to write the Bible is differentuated from other God's by his personal name JHVH (original pronunciantion not known).

In reference to your question:"isn't god infinite change and constant?"
It would depend on which God you are referring to.

Since Brahman is a principle, the answer could be : if this principle is true then yes.

If we are talking about a generic God, the answer is : it depends which one.

If we were talking about the God of the Bible JHVH, then it would be no to change and yes to constant.

Mal 3:6 "I am JHVH, I have not changed"
Rev 7:12 ...the honor ...be to our God forever and ever...

synonyms for most high god 'elyown 'el


https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/highest point

• extreme case
• extremity
• furthest point
• highest point
• limit
• nth degree
• perfection
• ultimate
• utmost
• utmost extent
• uttermost

https://www.freethesaurus.com/ultimate

• supreme
• highest
• greatest
• maximum
• paramount
• most significant
• superlative
• topmost

 

[Fool]

If they both say that 'nothing lasts', then whatever that is that doesn't last, must be illusory, ie; that which does not last comes and goes. Brahman, that which is real, does not come and go because it is not subject to change.

There is no disagreement. Such disagreement is only apparent because of the angle of viewing.

The difference between Hinduism and Buddhism as it relates to change and suffering, is that there is suffering when change occurs when one clings to the things of the past, whereas the change Hinduism refers to may be the same change, but can lead to liberation when those same attachments are let go of. So suffering is due to clinging, while liberation is due to letting go. From the POV of Higher Consciousness. this is relative joy and relative sorrow. Transcending both, one enters into Absolute Joy, for which no opposite exists.

The non-self of Buddhism is the case because of Sunyata, in which 'all phenomena are empty of self-nature', and because of The Law of Dependent Origination. The self, or seeker, is extinguished when Nirvana is attained.

The atman of Hinduism is no more when merged with Brahman, so in reality, the atman does not actually exist, as it is merely a play of Brahman, the only true Reality. It is sometimes said that 'the jiva BECOMES Brahman', but that is not true; Brahman simply comes into play, showing the jiva, which Brahman is playing, to be fictional, just as the character the actor plays is revealed as fiction when the mask is removed.

Brahman is everything. Everything changes

Jiva-Atman


In Indian philosophy, the jiva-atman – also simply called jiva – is the individual soul or self. It is one of two types of souls, the other being the paramatman or atman, which is the universal and eternal Soul. Jiva-atman is trapped in the earthly body until death, when it is reincarnated.

The term, jiva-atman, comes from the Sanskrit jiv, meaning “to breathe,” and atman, meaning “self.” Therefore, it may be translated to mean “living being.”

The path of yoga can unite jiva-atman (the personal self) with atman (the cosmic Self) by creating and expanding the practitioner's awareness of the oneness of all creation.

https://www.yogapedia.com/definition/5299/jiva-atman

the personal self is illusory. all created things are impermanent.

 

[Willamena]

Brahman is everything. Everything changes


the personal self is illusory. all created things are impermanent.

Change is impermanent.