God and Necessity

[Fool]

knowable: able to be observed, understood, or ascertained

To answer your question:
Because skeptics don't follow the prescribed instructions given by the Wise, Saints, Sages etc.

Even Scientists follow prescribed instructions to proof something in the field of Science. Not any different in Spirituality

Or else they are observing and ignoring, or it's something known by a metaphor, or another name?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

I don't believe it is either. I know it's omnipresent; otherwise I can't experience it. So why hold a belief that you can only experience outside the physical when in fact its operating in the physical as some believe

Hmm. I would say you can experience it physically if you know where to look. It's kind of like most people look in the wrong direction even though it's all around us. It's a certain interpretation of all events that take place.

 

[Baroodi]

if god exists and isn't provable or experienceable, then why would you need it? or maybe its something that is experienceable and self is overlooking the obvious? why would need a faith, a belief that doesn't have a practical or current use/need?

Without submission to true religion, whims prevails and create havoc all over the world as we see it now. World war 3 is around the corner

 

[Fool]

Without submission to true religion, whims prevails and create havoc all over the world as we see it now. World war 3 is around the corner

Religious wars have been fought because someone wants their form of religion to be in control. Not that they want to be of service. Religion should be about service and not mind contro games

 

[rational experiences]

Science healer reviewers as religion still lied. You reviewed evil humans Theist advice. Thought about it yourselves putting you in Theists position again.

Like my brother Jesus review. ROme man was constantly brain burnt prickled to gain his advice the heavenly medium lied to us.

Reasoned parents recorded life is always ahead of us. Their biology age was double recorded two hundred year lived lifespan.

Yet died biology is past.

We think they are still living. By recorded memory only in the future. Yet by sex karma we are their life reborn now living.

Brother hurt mind said I hence chose as did my sister celibacy. Parents two of life but vagina was sealed. They should not have had sex.

One life by two and no sex. Death stated and no further suffering and advised.

Don't listen to heavenly medium was ordered.

Behaviour natural family... don't order me around Rich man hypocrite. Natural medium allowed me self aware survival. A humans problem.

Wasn't explained as a spiritual teacher should.

Invention man gave many new yet not supportive of monetary gain good advices. Murdered and his plan designs destroyed. Was trying to save family and life on earth. Ignored by rich man's destroyer behaviours.

Destroyer man says freeze is infinities space law. I invented a new 0 infinity from earths mass removal. I know I have. Congratulates himself.

So earth decreases mass in space law means colder ground mass. Ice gets colder even though body mass gone....a warning.

Law space is freeze.

Sun frozen first. Cold. Burst.

Mass consumed opened more space froze...law of space infinity freezes as law.

Yet in between the law....a heated bursting colliding reaction consuming
Gets stopped. Becomes frozen by law.

After a huge amount of energy mass is destroyed. Man's warning...science is evil.

Want not to be frozen. Keep earths mass heat where it belongs in the ground naturally.

So life can survive if your theists intention doesn't use life sacrificed as his thesis. Yet your intentions in consciousness are notated. You already agreed.

Meaning transmitter increase also is heated first position and already is taking earths needed body heat. Then cooling...so it has to replace cooling but we lose heat.

So technology is against bio life survival in its nature.

 

[stvdv]

Or else they are observing and ignoring, or it's something known by a metaphor, or another name?

No. It's just lack of interest to do what is prescribed. You won't master a subject without following the correct study methods. Maybe they expect magically to get spiritual proof implanted in their brains, but that's not how it usually works (for both Scientific and Spiritual proofs)

 

[rational experiences]

Criminal minds keep putting threats in script. Self proof ...it's always what you practice...scientist...a satanist first.

You do practice what you preach..they prescribe don't you know.

Threats about getting anything you claim is just about a machine only position. Lying.

I begin at earths ground mass dusts. Says a Theist human mind. Where I began to think machine thesis. Is a direct human lie. To know dusts you have to be living.

Give it to me psychic medium spiritual memory human. He says. You wrote the bible says the liar scientist today. Tell me my answers. You must know now ...new now ...right now. Asks the living human aware. Forum reasons.

His answer is earth mass isn't any machine metal. His God of science.

No he says I'm telling you my reaction begins again a second time as reaction for inside machine by dusts. Not on the ground at all.

Machine his God. Earth in laws not reacting the answer.

Second human by his man lying...is a woman human. I got brain prickled attacked. Spiritual women psychic writes in book was approached to assist occult agency. I refused.

So they do it forcibly by machine technology...mind contact coercion. All machine only positions. A woman is hence new position I shifted my mind thesis....
Your atmospheric gas moment I react you die human woman. I'll study it.

Theories. I sacrificed myself in dusts before knowingly ..it's your turn now. Lying possessed minds. Not just one Theist..... group who agree. Represent father mother minds gone just living biology only....no holy mind.

New machine second machine doesn't begin at dusts. Position man's science caused reacting moment. Science as science human controlled.

Science his first machine does. Is man U ally changing ground dusts himself.

Any status past was reacted now is just cooling. Ground dust reacted cooling only in machine.

His machine is newly reacting now.

He ignored what science is as a practice in human life.

Earth is now in natural law. Isn't reacting.

Looks back in thesis where earth begins. Is still in now time...whilst he lives. Earths ground isn't reacting.

Reacting ground cooled a long time before biology owns it's ability to exist first is totally ignored. Earth the position thought as no biology...still wasn't reacting as he's lying.

As he wasnt ever following any type of law first. Natural law earth is now. Stated by humans.

As machines never owned any law.

Is his exact satanic man's thoughts.

Never about God...thoughts were only about the Burning star disintegrating into nothing in cosmic space position.

Asks about legality of earth being the entity God that human men of science named legally.

As if your belief in human life living states you believed O earth was God. If you didn't you are just a satanist.

Humans said natural law is why I exist...no reacting.

An earthquake of earth is plates. Eating was by 12 sun time calculus. Tectonic is carpenter the plate position. Earth reactions God sacrifices life is a teaching about below in earth mass changes.

It was used as the example only as we knew theists coerce scientific facts to suit their machine position only.

Stating the notified terms was a warning. Science of men understood ground mass reactions so be warned they lie about natural laws position is only between space and earth...not machine.

Law first of gods earth is mountain theme of man....reacting is Volcanic. How man moved mountains mass by breaking laws of stone existing.

As his thesis was star mass first. Not gods earth mass.

He themed in cosmic hell Satan first.

Why men were legally forbidden to ever convert earth as we are god not Satan's laws.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Back to the main point then, why does it matter whether or not you have faith in God as long as you behave and think rationally?

Faith itself isn't rational.

Of course if you believe you can fly without testing your technology in a safer situation then you are irrational, simply believing in God does not make one irrational.

No. In fact, the argument made is perfectly rational.
The premise is that you can fly. That's a believe that you hold.
From there, the reasoning is flawless. IF you can fly, then you can just fly down and land unharmed.
The problem is that the premise is false.

And you can't know it is false because you believe it on faith, which is to say: without evidence.

Believing things without evidence is irrational. It leads to holding false beliefs and subsequently making bad decisions whenever those beliefs serve as a premise in an argument or reasoning process.

I would love to debate the existence of God with you

The point you are replying to in that quote, is not an argument concerning the existence of god.
It's a point concerning your claim that you can't tell if a certain experience is the result of placebo effect or actually from a god.

My example illustrated that if you can't "tell" which one it is with an appropriate level of certainty, there still are ways to consider which one would be more likely.

And if one option is a common phenomenon that demonstrably happens and is known to happen, while the other is blind assertion of undemonstrable, undetectable magic...

Then guess which one you should go for if you care about rationality...

Homeopathy is not the same as believing in God.

Both are faith based beliefs that can't be demonstrated to be real.

One must be aware of the consequences of their actions, and disregarding science to practice homeopathy isn't rational

Things that aren't supported by rational evidence, never are...

In what way does this relate to the belief in divine providence?

They both require both.
Neither can be rationally demonstrated.
Neither has evidence.

I apologize for not making this clearer from the beginning. I'm not talking about religion, I'm talking about the belief in God alone.

That's a hypothetical that in my experience doesn't occur most of the time.
A "god belief" almost never comes alone. These are a very small minority. Like some kind of vague deism.

The vast, vast, vast majority of god believers are theists who follow a specific religion.
God belief almost NEVER comes alone.

Religion can (but not necessarily) cause one to act irrationally (usually the person had irrational tendencies to begin with though).

Off course. He follows a religion, after all.

As said, believing things on bad or no evidence, is irrational.
In my book, that makes religious faith irrational.

Being against blood transfusions is irrational *take a shot every time I say irrational *. It wasn't simply because they believed in God that they followed such an atrocious doctrine, it's because they fell victim to letting cult leaders make decisions for them.

You say this. But for them, it is an integral part of their god belief.
And as said already, God beliefs almost never come alone. There's practically ALWAYS baggage attached in terms of myths, culture, purpose, intent, punishment, reward, rules to live by, rituals, etc.

I'm sorry, but you just can't detach these things from god beliefs and pretend it is true for most people.
It simply isn't.

 

[Fool]

No. It's just lack of interest to do what is prescribed. You won't master a subject without following the correct study methods. Maybe they expect magically to get spiritual proof implanted in their brains, but that's not how it usually works (for both Scientific and Spiritual proofs

most people don't study a subject they can't experience or use

 

[stvdv]

most people don't study a subject they can't experience or use

Spirituality is all about experiencing and it's very practical and useful. So, did you mean that this is why so many people study Spirituality?

 

[Fool]

Spirituality is all about experiencing and it's very practical and useful. So, did you mean that this is why so many people study Spirituality?

if you study the idea of spirit, mind, will, eventually one would have to come to the idea and ideal of self being a mental/spiritual being. with this i can agree. this is practical.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Faith itself isn't rational.



No. In fact, the argument made is perfectly rational.
The premise is that you can fly. That's a believe that you hold.
From there, the reasoning is flawless. IF you can fly, then you can just fly down and land unharmed.
The problem is that the premise is false.

And you can't know it is false because you believe it on faith, which is to say: without evidence.

Believing things without evidence is irrational. It leads to holding false beliefs and subsequently making bad decisions whenever those beliefs serve as a premise in an argument or reasoning process.




The point you are replying to in that quote, is not an argument concerning the existence of god.
It's a point concerning your claim that you can't tell if a certain experience is the result of placebo effect or actually from a god.

My example illustrated that if you can't "tell" which one it is with an appropriate level of certainty, there still are ways to consider which one would be more likely.

And if one option is a common phenomenon that demonstrably happens and is known to happen, while the other is blind assertion of undemonstrable, undetectable magic...

Then guess which one you should go for if you care about rationality...



Both are faith based beliefs that can't be demonstrated to be real.



Things that aren't supported by rational evidence, never are...



They both require both.
Neither can be rationally demonstrated.
Neither has evidence.



That's a hypothetical that in my experience doesn't occur most of the time.
A "god belief" almost never comes alone. These are a very small minority. Like some kind of vague deism.

The vast, vast, vast majority of god believers are theists who follow a specific religion.
God belief almost NEVER comes alone.



Off course. He follows a religion, after all.

As said, believing things on bad or no evidence, is irrational.
In my book, that makes religious faith irrational.




You say this. But for them, it is an integral part of their god belief.
And as said already, God beliefs almost never come alone. There's practically ALWAYS baggage attached in terms of myths, culture, purpose, intent, punishment, reward, rules to live by, rituals, etc.

I'm sorry, but you just can't detach these things from god beliefs and pretend it is true for most people.
It simply isn't.

It seems you are saying that just because someone has a faith-based belief in something then automatically they are incapable of critical thinking and decision making. It's simply not the case. Someone can have faith in God and understand the consequences of jumping off of a rooftop without testing your flying-machine first, someone can have faith in God and understand the consequences of rejecting modern medicine. All it boils down to is whether or not you're able to think and act for yourself, with logic and reason. Having faith in a God doesn't inhibit this.

 

[rational experiences]

When men put biologies life backdrop in a thesis.

Radiation sun effect.

It's a confession of Sion.

Men take fusion into fission of ground mass their self.

Are now mind changed possessed by it.

As we live in nature's first position oxygenated water. The backdrop.

Confessed. Father told me guidance. Listen to their words they told you already their intention.

To cause it. Burn us to death.

As rock was radiation pressurised cooled back with water vapour to be rock created. Water inside rock.

No backdrop only empty space when rock the seal of holy God legal position was formed.

The volcano burst open rock put out hot gases.

New law a gas in space cooled to clear. Burning gone. Just a gas spirit.

Earth ownership. Crystalline faced. Water on earth not ice. Planet earth not any sun asteroid moving by burning gases wandering. Legal..

Sun attacked earth. Converted it's very cold mass.

Crystalline mass melt saved earth.
Water present saved earth.
Infinity vacuum void saved earth.

Dusts were formed did not convert law infinity vacuum void froze attack.

Space expands space contracts.

Infinity expansion loss energy in mass burning 100000000000000000000.
Then loses a zero position that contracts 100000000000000000.
One less zero brought back burning mass reignites atmosphere.

Known thesis men. Scientific reasoned how earth gained sun mass yet isn't a self consuming mass as a sun body type.

Men of science evilly restarted what the sun had not achieved.

Was why sun theists Satanists sun theories were outlawed as purely evil.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It seems you are saying that just because someone has a faith-based belief in something then automatically they are incapable of critical thinking and decision making.

How did you manage to still not understand the point being made?
No. What I actually said was that if you hold false beliefs AND you then using those beliefs as premises in certain reasoning processes THEN those false beliefs will influence your conclusion. And your conclusion is only as good as your premise.

Irrational premises lead to irrational conclusions. Which in turn lead to irrational actions and / or decision making.

It's not hard.

If you believe you can fly, you might end up engaging in the irrational behavior of jumping down a skyskraper believing you'll land safely on your feet.

Believing you can fly will not influence your decision to eat pork instead beef.

It's simply not the case. Someone can have faith in God and understand the consequences of jumping off of a rooftop without testing your flying-machine first, someone can have faith in God and understand the consequences of rejecting modern medicine.

But if their "faith in god" includes a belief that it is evil to engage in blood transfusion and that "god will provide what you need", then that will be leading to bad and potentially fatal, decisions.

Again: God beliefs almost never come alone. There is always baggage (myths, rules by which to live, rituals, moral declarations, etc).

The only purely inconsequential god beliefs I can imagine, are those god beliefs that are in practice indistinguishable from atheism. And those are some kind of vague deism where "some entity" kickstarted everything and then went away, leaving no trace of itself or why it kickstarted everything and so on.

I can honestly tell you that I personally don't know a single god believer like that.

So I wonder why you are presenting such a god believer as being "the rule" here, just so you can make your point. You KNOW that reality is not like that.

All it boils down to is whether or not you're able to think and act for yourself, with logic and reason. Having faith in a God doesn't inhibit this.

I have shown you multiple times by now that in practice that isn't true at all.
Your beliefs are used as premises in your reasoning and thereby influence your conclusion.

When christians conclude homophobic things, they do so because one of the premises is "god says it's evil".

 

[The Sum of Awe]

How did you manage to still not understand the point being made?
No. What I actually said was that if you hold false beliefs AND you then using those beliefs as premises in certain reasoning processes THEN those false beliefs will influence your conclusion. And your conclusion is only as good as your premise.

Irrational premises lead to irrational conclusions. Which in turn lead to irrational actions and / or decision making.

It's not hard.

If you believe you can fly, you might end up engaging in the irrational behavior of jumping down a skyskraper believing you'll land safely on your feet.

Believing you can fly will not influence your decision to eat pork instead beef.

When it comes to something like a belief in God's guidance, or belief in prayer, or belief in angels/deities watching over you, it really doesn't make a difference as long as you don't let yourself see the world through rose-colored glasses. Having a respect for science, cause and effect, consequences for our actions, that's all that really matters - what is such a big deal with believing in some guidance in the background?

But if their "faith in god" includes a belief that it is evil to engage in blood transfusion and that "god will provide what you need", then that will be leading to bad and potentially fatal, decisions.

Again: God beliefs almost never come alone. There is always baggage (myths, rules by which to live, rituals, moral declarations, etc).

They often can, it's mostly strict religions (such as the Abrahamic religions and certain strict sects of Eastern Religions) that carry those baggage not the belief in God alone.

The only purely inconsequential god beliefs I can imagine, are those god beliefs that are in practice indistinguishable from atheism. And those are some kind of vague deism where "some entity" kickstarted everything and then went away, leaving no trace of itself or why it kickstarted everything and so on.

What do you mean by a practice that is indistinguishable from atheism or deism? Theism, atheism, and deism are theological concepts not religions, they don't have "practices" assigned to them.

I can honestly tell you that I personally don't know a single god believer like that.

I can name many independent-thinking theists right here on this forum, myself included. In fact the fundie population is quite small in comparison to them.

So I wonder why you are presenting such a god believer as being "the rule" here, just so you can make your point. You KNOW that reality is not like that.

All I can say is from my own personal experience here, but, in my life, I've met more theists that make decisions based off of logic and reason than I have met theists that make decisions based off of religious tradition/faith alone.

I have shown you multiple times by now that in practice that isn't true at all.
Your beliefs are used as premises in your reasoning and thereby influence your conclusion.

When christians conclude homophobic things, they do so because one of the premises is "god says it's evil".

I honestly don't know how accurate these stats are, but here's one page that shows how homophobia has become less prominent among the Christian population: Religious Landscape Study

And it really does show in the real world. Homosexuality has become a lot more accepted in our society, there are still bigots out there every now and again but the toxic stands out more than the tolerant only because the toxic is louder. Gay marriage is legal in every US state now, in 30 different countries, it's becoming more widely accepted in Mexico (a largely Catholic country)...

 

[rational experiences]

Legal entity earth as God to argue legal human rights for planet as entity in human law.

God highest greatest anyone type of its owned form word one.

Not numbers as evil. Intent to destroy 1 by calculus. 11 two humans. As one and one.
O in clock 1 and 1 say we live in natural time and light.

12 natural light time inherited so don't change anything warning. Said by living aware humans.

Versus a man theist scientist expressing two destructive thoughts. Design... designer civilisation rich then scientist.

One mind one body two thinking strategies and no family. The advice. Just man and man. Man's changed sex law mind against mother and father.

Introduced war in life as drugs for money as his secret hidden war. Against family as it is always about rich man first.

Rich men today claiming I'm more spiritual. Say I must wage war on drugs. As robotic mind caused human behaviours is getting worse. Must make police force an armed force. Chemical balanced mind deficient.

Russia hit twice huge star fall blast. The modern teaching example of all mans wrong's.

Rich man mind changes. Rich man using his built weapons of science destroying blasting his own civilisation. To get what he wants.

Seen. You watch observe as other rich men claiming I'm holier lying.

Last mother's warning. Civilisation not destroyed so she tried to cause shared agreement in conscious advice about living in civilisation yet sharing a common Wealth. Not successful argued fought rich lord brothers.

Theist. O earth owned Jesus first is God he argues. First was Jesus he keeps claiming I'm correct as Theists self. Earthquake first law held a constant shake so plate constant lifted mountain volcano up.

Where my gases I use in science status of earth came from first. Beginning position god.

So he caused a four day earthquake. Lucky it wasn't the beginning or end. Reasoned himself and told why he caused it.

Jesus plate carpenter tectonic.

Sun owned origin sin sink hole. Not man of science.

Man says I build machine. Then I want gas. Takes on that position manually by coldest gas the removal of. His said machine back to a gas in his ground theory. Ignores what he's doing. Machine first mass energy.

Thesis just gas position only.

As he pretends it's a thesis about cold gases above. He got his gas as his machine out of the earth same as machine.

Machine not a gas hence tried to be invented into a gas too. Tried to blow up. All answers are a many human strung thoughts theisms....all answered the same. You are wrong scientist.

No machine exists. First. No electricity exists first. Lightning by God in coldest heavens was position electricity theme about heavens. And it was thought upon only by man. Artificial thesis only and not God.

What lying men of science are. Liars.

Two thirds he said of humans he wants life removed. Statement said and warned told to humanity. One third in his genetics are animal terms by science as his says. Genesis.

Says you'll die too lying not owning self survival as lying human.

No he says in thesis I'll be an animal human...how he coerces self destruction.

Not this time.

As to open to universal free flowing singularity energies is his thesis too. He has to bind mass energy to remove it out of universes hold to gain it as human science. Want thesis calculus mass energy only.

So expects the old science way... day to go dark as Jesus themed. Relight above Infinity return by burning mass returned to own light in a no light heavens by his invention only.... Then the calculated mass should hit his machine.

As I don't know how big the star mass was that gave him his theory of science origins.... I don't know how big a mass to machine he wants the machine to inherit.

Maybe as big as ark UFO hit melt on Ararat...would about instantly shift machine and gases he wants taken as science itself...then put back instant. As God removed and God put back theme.

Science is artificial practice. God is natural law first sealed.

Man looks back before biologies life. Earth position non reactive lies.

Thinks about earth in ground mass reaction of dusts into sink hole relative to sin and sun. His calculus uses his term sin.

Is the human destroyer of life on earth mentality the theist human.

Might have agreed woman mother humans life can be sacrificed destroyed thesis says so will he be gone.

The day he learns how truly evil he is himself..... as a human woman conned by an innocent man baby who grows into an adult human life's destroyer.

The big life con. It's true.

 

[F1fan]

Without submission to true religion, whims prevails and create havoc all over the world as we see it now. World war 3 is around the corner

Which religion is the "true religion"? And how does a mere mortal like yourself know for sure?

 

[rational experiences]

The real bindings in life is any one natural presence not submitted to mans egotistical listing. Or claim what's better or greater or higher than.

Natural was and is its owned law...natural. Basic status communion.

Communion holy life holy water was baptism of life kept holy by water. As human biology is mainly only water. Baptism first.
Communion supported living by owning blood and flesh.

Known. I don't need ceremony. I needed nature only.

Men made a ceremony about being advised what was real first. Ignore that theism is thinking copying what you can't copy. As it's real first.

Ceremony religion was introduced to remind humanity who you were first.

Each one by word is seen as its highest owned form as it stopped physically as it's owned body.

You cannot be without communion first said men that explained why baptism holy water life baby born life continuance was our only reality.

Nature human parents human baby born is before human science theism.

Legal status.

The church hence said gods legal standing rock. I found humans legal rights on this church...no Satanists allowed. Scientist branch.

Medical healer branch.

Satanists said in ceremony a n a l sex gave me power of Satan.

Church men once were locked at night in to their cells. To try to conform not being like their brother. Realised it wasnt their fault by a legally summarised revelation. So as long as you didn't believe in Satan.

One anything was hence mutual equal.

As men of science had changed gods support of conscious mind the teaching Christ's consciousness.

Theists in science don't agree. As they already displaced mind to hierarchy.