God And Homosexuality

[TagliatelliMonster]

Yes. And medical doctors consider shellfish unhealthy as well.

I appreciate your desire to better understand the Bible. Romans 1 specifically mentions lesbians and gays both:

"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural , 27 and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."

It sounds like you think the Bible laws aren't good for us. How did you come to that conclusion?

By living in a 21st century secular democracy and imagining how life would be like if we would be living in a christian theocracy based on biblical law instead.

For starters, slavery would still be legal. And that's just the tip of the ice berg.

So yeah, a society based on biblical law would most definatly not be a nice place to live. Especially not when contrasted against a secular democracy.

In fact, it would be more similar to some backwards shariah ruled theocracy, then a secular democracy.

After all, there are consequences to eating shellfish and to illicit sexual behavior.

Please...

Shellfish are rich in proteïn, omega-3, B12 vitamins and zinc. All of which promote a healthy brain, heart and immune system.

They are very healthy.

Sex, furthermore, is a very good way of bonding with your partner and extremely good for mental health. Couples should have recreational sex very regurarly. It will promote their mental health, physical health and be very good for the relationship overall. Regardless if the couple is heterosexual or homosexual.


Get your facts straight.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm not asking you to stop being gay, I'm asking you to be accountable for the issues in your life and pursue God who is the only hope IMHO.

To tell him that he is "guilty" of being gay is like telling africans that they are "guilty" of being black.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That all sounds enlightened,

Because it is. Welcome in the 21st century.

however, the God I serve leads His people to bring help, hope and healing to the broken

Gay people aren't "broken" and are not in need of "fixing".

Gay friends and family have a specific brokenness.

No.

That the Bible is more than the words of men or women is evidenced by its many insights into human behavior,
including a description of homosexuality as self-destructive and the result of sin that becomes more sin.

No.

Since the Bible mentions homosexuality 18 (?) times, none of them as good or holistic, most of them as sin, pain and shame, you are accusing God of homophobia or bigotry, and He is much better than that.

If the bible is god's word, then god is a misogynistic, homophobic, petty, jealous, immoral, barbaric bigot.
Sounds suprisingly like a macho human barbaric mentality from the iron age....

Murder is a sin, homosexual sex is sin. Masturbation is sin. Cursing using God's name is sin. I no more think gays should be imprisoned than people who damn things aloud or who masturbate. I DO think murderers should be imprisoned, so don't say I equate all sins as equal

You equate them, by putting them in the same sentence.

More importantly, being gay is no more a sin (or virtue) then being black or caucasian.

We do, however, find homosexuality in lists in the Bible of things that are quite harmful to the people who do them, and blinders toward the light and love of Christ.

Yeah, the bible says a lot of stupid and immoral things.

 

[rational experiences]

Honest question: why does it matter what the biological basis is, if any, for homosexuality?

How is it relevant to the topic of homophobia in the bible and in society at large?

Because occult science is trying to link biblical statements to human genetic information to make evil quotations real for science.....the only reason.

For most humans in everyday life accept the condition of homosexuality, seeing it has become quite normal.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because occult science is trying to link biblical statements to human genetic information to make evil quotations real for science.....the only reason.

1. science isn't occult

2. homosexuality isn't evil

3. considering sexuality / sexual attraction is heavily underlined by biology (hormones and whatnot), it is extremely reasonable to therefor conclude that homosexuality is equally underpinned by biology. That kind of puts homosexuality in the same category of ethnicity, in the sense that it is just a part of your biological makeup. So calling being gay a "sin", is like calling being black a "sin".

For most humans in everyday life accept the condition of homosexuality, seeing it has become quite normal.

It has always been normal. It was already normal long before humans existed. Homosexuality isn't exclusive to humans. It rather occurs throughout the animal kingdom.

What you actually mean is that these days, more humans see it as normal. Or perhaps better put: realise it is normal.



On a sidenote: I think this is the first time ever that you responded to me with a post I could actually decipher.
Do you use a google translate? May I ask what your native language is?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Wrong. Where does Romans 1:26-27 specifically mention the words "lesbians" or "female homosexuals" or "women with women" or "dykes" or "butch women" etc etc, or is that just wishful thinking?

All it says is the men's "women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural". And unless you can show us where the bible describes anal sex as a natural function of women then you haven't shown us that Paul was therefore describing female genitalia or other female anatomy as "vile" and "unseemly".

And if you claim that anal sex is "the natural function of the woman" then what was the natural function that the men's women exchanged for an unnatural function? Was it the natural function of their hands, or the natural function of their mouths, or the natural function of their feet?

The biblical laws (including the ten commandments) are obviously just man-made and change as the needs of society changes. Which is why it wasn't morally wrong for Abraham to have a sexual relationship with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar or to kill his son as a blood sacrifice, or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel, or for Noah's father to kill a young man who assaulted him (Gen 4), since the ten commandments etc did not apply to them or their ancestors.

Rom 1:24 says "sexual impurity" in the NIV. What "natural" function became "sexual impurity" when men did it with other men and women, with women?

Where does Romans 1 use "vile" and "unseemly"? Which version are you quoting?

I did not make a claim about anal sex, men and women (or men) can have oral or anal sex. Obviously, vaginal sex is being described.

How are the biblical laws man made? Of the 613 Torah laws, over 200 have health benefits, some of them quite prescient to 19th and 20th century science advances.

Where does the Bible say sinners before Moses didn't commit sin? Romans 5 explains the opposite.

It sounds like you are applying some subjective concepts (adultery is wrong, homosexual sex isn't). I appreciate your zeal for justice, I hope you'll come to see God as in the Bible shares your zeal. We're made in His image.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Do you think that all remarried divorcees should be imprisoned for their adultery, given that adultery is one of the ten commandments and a capital offence too (Lev 20:10)? And Jesus condemned all remarried divorcees to hell unless they repent and remain celibate (Matt 5:27-30 Mark 10:11-12), but said nothing at all about homosexuality, nor why he loved one of his disciples and not a wife. And the bible says nothing at all about female homosexuality either.

And where does the bible say that masturbation is sin anyway, given that ALL normal adolescents regularly masturbate, and is a natural function for their health and well being?

Read what I posted? I said I do NOT advocate imprisonment for homosexuality. But is is evident to both homosexuals and adulterers that sin and brokenness are present (Romans 1).

Masturbation isn't a sin, lust is, unless the masturbation reduces a spouse's satisfaction or the object of fantasy isn't one's spouse.

I think your questions underlie the real issue--you seem hung up on law statutes, God is interested in hearts, intentions.

I encourage you to consider my ways and your ways, and you'll see we're both much the same.

I admire your advocacy against bigotry and hatred, however, without hate or anger, I can affirm that gay/lesbian sex harms the participants and is against God's plan. I have some friends who've left the life for a heterosexual life and peace and joy in Christ.

 

[BilliardsBall]

By living in a 21st century secular democracy and imagining how life would be like if we would be living in a christian theocracy based on biblical law instead.

For starters, slavery would still be legal. And that's just the tip of the ice berg.

So yeah, a society based on biblical law would most definatly not be a nice place to live. Especially not when contrasted against a secular democracy.

In fact, it would be more similar to some backwards shariah ruled theocracy, then a secular democracy.



Please...

Shellfish are rich in proteïn, omega-3, B12 vitamins and zinc. All of which promote a healthy brain, heart and immune system.

They are very healthy.

Sex, furthermore, is a very good way of bonding with your partner and extremely good for mental health. Couples should have recreational sex very regurarly. It will promote their mental health, physical health and be very good for the relationship overall. Regardless if the couple is heterosexual or homosexual.


Get your facts straight.

My facts include domestic violence and divorce rates for gay couples, and the fact that if you visited your healthcare provider to say you were focusing on a shellfish and pork diet, they'd warn you that you were being foolish--every, single doctor!

A society based on biblical law would be wonderful for biblical people! Why do you have locks on your doors? Born again thieves? Why do your tax dollars go to drug rehabs and prisons? Born again killers?

 

[BilliardsBall]

To tell him that he is "guilty" of being gay is like telling africans that they are "guilty" of being black.

That's true. A black person is . . . black. A gay person is . . . gay.

To tell a gay person he must always be gay, was born gay, and is in right relationship with God . . . and people . . . is calling good bad, and bad good.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Because it is. Welcome in the 21st century.


Gay people aren't "broken" and are not in need of "fixing".




No.



No.



If the bible is god's word, then god is a misogynistic, homophobic, petty, jealous, immoral, barbaric bigot.
Sounds suprisingly like a macho human barbaric mentality from the iron age....



You equate them, by putting them in the same sentence.

More importantly, being gay is no more a sin (or virtue) then being black or caucasian.



Yeah, the bible says a lot of stupid and immoral things.

I appreciate your zeal for justice, but "No . . . no . . . sure" is not a debate to me. It's one person with facts being opposed by a bad attitude.

Gay people are broken, hurting, and nearly all of them experience sexual abuse and/or emotional abuse/trauma with a same sex parent/provider in their youth. Jesus fixes hurting people. I trust Him!

 

[Mitty]

Rom 1:24 says "sexual impurity" in the NIV. What "natural" function became "sexual impurity" when men did it with other men and women, with women?

Where does Romans 1 use "vile" and "unseemly"? Which version are you quoting?

The KJV obviously describes anal sex of women and men as "vile" and "unseemly" in Romans 1:26-27

I did not make a claim about anal sex, men and women (or men) can have oral or anal sex. Obviously, vaginal sex is being described.

So what were the men with men working which Paul described as "vile" and "unseemly" if it wasn't anal sex?

And are you claiming that the bible describes female genitalia as "vile" and "unseemly" even though Romans 1:26-27 says nothing at all about female homosexuals or lesbians or women with women?

And if you believe otherwise, where does the Greek bible say anything about female homosexuals or lesbians or women with women? Bible Gateway passage: ΠΡΟΣ ΡΩΜΑΙΟΥΣ 1:26-27 - SBL Greek New Testament

How are the biblical laws man made? Of the 613 Torah laws, over 200 have health benefits, some of them quite prescient to 19th and 20th century science advances.

The biblical laws, including the ten commandments, are obviously just man-made since they did not apply to Abraham et al and their ancestors. Nor did they apply to our aborigines who arrived here over 50,000 years before Adam's grandmother was a girl

Where does the Bible say sinners before Moses didn't commit sin? Romans 5 explains the opposite.

So where does the bible say that it was a sin for Abraham to have a sexual relationship with his sister Sarah and commit adultery with Hagar?
Where does the bible say it was a sin for Abraham to kill his son as a blood sacrifice, or for Cain(an) to kill his brother Abel, or for Noah's father to kill a young man for assaulting him (Gen 4), given that Cain(an)'s god even protected him from retribution after he relocated to Nod and married one of the Nod girls and lived happily ever after?

It sounds like you are applying some subjective concepts (adultery is wrong, homosexual sex isn't). I appreciate your zeal for justice, I hope you'll come to see God as in the Bible shares your zeal. We're made in His image.

Doesn't change the fact that the adultery committed by ALL remarried divorcees is condemned in the ten commandments, whereas anal sex is not even mentioned in the ten commandments. And female homosexuality is not even mentioned in the bible anyway since it doesn't involve anal sex which is described as disgusting in Gen 18 & 20 and as "vile" and "unseemly" in Romans 1:26-27.

 

[Mitty]

Read what I posted? I said I do NOT advocate imprisonment for homosexuality. But is is evident to both homosexuals and adulterers that sin and brokenness are present (Romans 1).

But there's nothing in Romans 1 about female homosexuals since they do not have anal sex as obviously described for heterosexual women in Romans 1:26-27.

Masturbation isn't a sin, lust is, unless the masturbation reduces a spouse's satisfaction or the object of fantasy isn't one's spouse.

Are you claiming that ALL adolescents sin when they fantasize while masturbating daily?

I admire your advocacy against bigotry and hatred, however, without hate or anger, I can affirm that gay/lesbian sex harms the participants and is against God's plan.

So how does lesbian sex harm the participants compared to that by heterosexual women, given they don't become pregnant and the risk from STD infections is significantly reduced?

And how does gay sex harm the participants compare to that by heterosexual men?

I have some friends who've left the life for a heterosexual life and peace and joy in Christ.

Did they leave a celibate life for a heterosexual life, and what relevance is that to homosexual clergymen who are so born from their mothers' wombs?

And why didn't Jesus leave his life for a heterosexual life instead of loving one of his disciples?

 

[sojourner]

Rom 1:24 says "sexual impurity" in the NIV.

You're aware that the NIV is a biased translation? What does the Greek say?

How are the biblical laws man made?

Because human beings devised them.

But is is evident to both homosexuals and adulterers that sin and brokenness are present (Romans 1).

That's because sin is part of the human condition. Sin and brokenness result from injustice, not homosexuality.

I can affirm that gay/lesbian sex harms the participants and is against God's plan.

How can you affirm that? The bible doesn't say that. What are you basing your "affirmation" on?

I have some friends who've left the life for a heterosexual life and peace and joy in Christ.

I have some friends who left homosexuality, tried to be heterosexual, and ended up either committing suicide or attempting to, because their faith system condemned them for being who they are. What's your point?

To tell a gay person he must always be gay, was born gay, and is in right relationship with God . . . and people . . . is calling good bad, and bad good.

God made us who we are, and God called it "good."

 

[rational experiences]

1. science isn't occult

2. homosexuality isn't evil

3. considering sexuality / sexual attraction is heavily underlined by biology (hormones and whatnot), it is extremely reasonable to therefor conclude that homosexuality is equally underpinned by biology. That kind of puts homosexuality in the same category of ethnicity, in the sense that it is just a part of your biological makeup. So calling being gay a "sin", is like calling being black a "sin".



It has always been normal. It was already normal long before humans existed. Homosexuality isn't exclusive to humans. It rather occurs throughout the animal kingdom.

What you actually mean is that these days, more humans see it as normal. Or perhaps better put: realise it is normal.



On a sidenote: I think this is the first time ever that you responded to me with a post I could actually decipher.
Do you use a google translate? May I ask what your native language is?

When you study science it began as the occult

Science caused homosexuality

Males looking for God know fallout caused it

Studying genesis looking for God

In reality

Homosexuals became the scientist in the Egyptian past

As temple were technology with pyramid the self stealing from God was termed a criminal who murdered life

Hence they were not allowed in Church built for healing

Read the documents correctly and it is what is stated

 

[rational experiences]

Father in AI causation said to me today this relative aware conscious reality.

As the eternal spirit communicates to all bodies that it owned released out its own body....the atmosphere existed first, for our spirits to be released out of the eternal.

And it was always taught to be cause and effect. Why we taught personal human spiritual relativity about cause and effect, as a self spiritual lesson.

If you then state, science is the only state that did not exist...for it was a concept, that involved a formula, and the formula involved the building, and the building involved the machination, science cause an occult/cult historical beginning for science, as the cult and occult is based on HELL, the Sun, sun mass and sun mass ejection. Cold sun mass held frozen in space...O Earth science owning movement through that space. Science building machine that changed the cold radiation in space, so then God Earth moved into heated irradiated space.

Science began by activating the removal of cold fusion....and replaced it with the eventuation black mass hole for God O the planet to move into.

Relative human science memories.

O pi in the atmospheric light movement of god upon the face of the water/deep is real...it was the original higher atmospheric soul body. Not ours at all.

Science knew that it changed that light movement, and converted it into becoming God movement, with O splitting as 1000 value into D/D 500 value each.

G O D cooled and stole the water mass off the ground that split into 2...the other half of the mass was used to cool D evil fall out to own O the held cooled body.

Science took that body beyond its cooling.

Now to achieve that circumstance science did evil...and tried to put all of the O various crop circles back on top of one another. Which if you tried the pattern you look at on the ground with another pattern would change both patterns and you would get what it isn't.

How you made sink holes.

Father told me to advise our brothers today...you knew that you did the Jesus life sacrifice attack TWICE.

That evidence is proven when the CHURCH was built after Jesus life had been sacrificed the first time.

Then in the new updated Biblical documentation of the occult, Jesus second coming/attack the Shroud of Turin REAL...and evidence supports it...including the bible.

For in the bible the theme said...to know science in the olden times was by Satanism....which back then were homosexual males who believed that anal sex introduced you into the powers of evil....what they believed, and it is documented with that belief.

Homosexual males today are of course just what science did to our atmospheric wavelength feed back, it abominated it the VEIL. Why the teachings said EVIL was the burnt veil....hence feed back introduced replicators...that mimic everything.

Now if that circumstance were not true, then how could you use machinery to look at earth an inanimate held fused body from space. And then knowing what an inanimate fusion is.....photographed, vision transmitted also...when a bio life is nothing like an inanimate object.

The reason, what is not natural nor natural history in creation.

Science, a formula whose strings go to the body building machine. Then the scientist has to further resource the power energy to give the machine body life.

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with bio existence...a male with a formula and a machine.

If he just wrote a formula...his formula is no different to a spiritual human saying once we came out of the eternal spirit, but now we own death because you changed natural existence. For spirit already owned presence, all it did was move from its higher presence into a lowered presence, and did not own any body that already existed.

Why we are separate to creation, but live within the gases, freely moving.

Tree Nature was once also a free moving spirit hovering above the ground, once.

We tell stories about those forms of memories....tree spirits moving above the ground and not being grounded.

Imagine if you got struck by lightning/radiation mass as a tree, and then got rooted to the ground.

Imagine being a human spiritual manifested eternal spirit, irradiated converted in that attack....just imagine. For that is all that science did first, was use their imagination.

Father said our brother in the Temple pyramid sciences was the homosexual group who changed the Nature of God by applying the transmutation for the second Jesus sacrifice. And it was titled/written documented as the Church owning its building, that humans had been attending the Temple and church healing services when life was attacked again.

So the homosexual male Satanic group were titled, criminals, murderers, thieves etc., for they were living partnering with self and also machine....claiming the occult theories for destruction of the bodies of God.

And the detailed changes to God the Earth and its atmospheric gases were real, it said that the balanced life of humans male/female were married in life with God due to the stone fusion/radiation levels in life.

And that circumstance had been removed actually by the Satanic order, homosexual scientists.

Why it is so difficult to distinguish reality today...for homosexual life today is innocent of what a group of scientists did in the past. For that life/ability to know trans mutation was changed, as God the body of fusion also changed.

And life moved from its previous sacrifices and inherited new bio changes.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

When you study science it began as the occult

No.

Science caused homosexuality

Retarded and demonstrably wrong.
There was homosexuality before science.
Also, I don't think sheep engage in long term homosexual relationships "because of science".

Males looking for God know fallout caused it

Gibberish.

Studying genesis looking for God

Gibberish.

In reality
Homosexuals became the scientist in the Egyptian past

Science is only a couple centuries old. So there were no scientists in ancient egypt.

As temple were technology with pyramid the self stealing from God was termed a criminal who murdered life

Gibberish.

Hence they were not allowed in Church built for healing

Gibberish.

Read the documents correctly and it is what is stated

What documents?


You forgot to answer my questions concerning your bizar use of the english language.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My facts include domestic violence and divorce rates for gay couples,

Right, right, because divorce rates and domestic violence is exclusive to gay people.

and the fact that if you visited your healthcare provider to say you were focusing on a shellfish and pork diet,
they'd warn you that you were being foolish--every, single doctor!

Who said anything about a shellfish / pork diet?
Please don't be so dishonest.

You can also die from drinking too much water. That doesn't mean that drinking water is bad / not healthy.

Be serious please.

As I said: shellfish is rich in omega 13, vitamins etc. Shellfish being part of your diet to a certain extent (which is the case for most types of foods) and not the only thing you eat, IS healthy. It's good for your brain, immune system, etc.

Please stick, to what I actually say when responding to me. What you are doing is extremely dishonest.

A society based on biblical law would be wonderful for biblical people!

Yeah. Jihadi's thought Islamic State was wonderfull for them as well.

Why do you have locks on your doors?

Common sense.
Eventhough 99.999999999% of the time, I'ld be just fine even with the door wide open 24/7 where I live.

Which, FYI, is a place that is FAR less religious then the US and which has FAR LESS crime then the US. Clearly, being religious isn't some magical solution for crime. In fact, the correlation is the exact opposite!!

Why do your tax dollars go to drug rehabs and prisons?

Because the secular society that I live in actually believes in helping people get back on their feet after having made a couple of bad decisions.

The alternative would be rather brutal and barbaric.
I know your bible orders execution by stoning and whatnot for rather silly "crimes" (like having sex with someone of the same gender), but thankfully I live in a civilized society.

EDIT: perhaps you should look up a couple of shariah ruled countries and see what they do there with drug addicts and alike. Often times, they don't invest in rehab centers. Because they give them biblical-style treatment instead. Perhaps you would feel more at home there...

Born again killers?

Perhaps, instead of making these juvenile and malinformed comments, you should inform yourself on the demographics of the prison population.

As it turns out, especially in the US, atheists are extremely underrepresented.
So either they commit far less crimes then christians, or they are so much smarter that they just get caught a lot less. What do you think is the reason? ""

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's true. A black person is . . . black. A gay person is . . . gay.

To tell a gay person he must always be gay, was born gay, and is in right relationship with God . . . and people . . . is calling good bad, and bad good.

You are the only one trying to tell people what they must and must not be.

I don't care one bit if people are straight, gay or bi.
You're the one who's so obsessed with the sexual orientation of others.

The point remains.

One doesn't choose ones sexual orientation.
Just like one doesn't choose ones ethnicity.

There are no moral components here at all.

The only person being immoral here, is you.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I appreciate your zeal for justice, but "No . . . no . . . sure" is not a debate to me

This isn't a debate.
I already told you this. I'm well past the point of "debating" this subject, just like I'm past the point of "debating" wheter or not black people are inferior to white people.

There's nothing to debate.

There's just you being homophobic, that's all. I don't care what your reasoning is, just like I don't care why a racist person is racist. I wouldn't spend time and energy trying to listen to the "arguments" of a racist either.

It's one person with facts being opposed by a bad attitude.

Nope. There's one person being a tolerant citizen of a 21st century humanist civilisation, and another who's an homophobic bible thumper. Sorry if that offends you, but thats how I see it.

Gay people are broken, hurting,

BY PEOPLE LIKE YOU and the social stigma YOU create for them.

Gay people risk EVERYTHING by coming out of the closet. They risk being spit out like trash by their social community. They risk being disowned by their families and loved ones. They risk losing their jobs. They risk being shunned by those they used to call their friends.

And you are surprised that such an environment creates psychological problems for them????

and nearly all of them experience sexual abuse and/or emotional abuse/trauma with a same sex parent/provider in their youth

This is a pure lie.

 

[columbus]

As it turns out, especially in the US, atheists are extremely underrepresented.
So either they commit far less crimes then christians, or they are so much smarter that they just get caught a lot less. What do you think is the reason? ""

I think it's because claiming to "get right with God" comes with all kinds of benefits in prison, at no cost to the beneficiary.

I don't think truly religious people are all that common in prison, despite statistics.
Tom