God’s Method of delivering messages, is it flawed?

[night912]

If a god exists, it's going the right way to make sure it does get the method flawed.

If it's manmade, and in many instances, it is proven it is. It is going the right way to make sure of more manmade gods. This can be proven.

When I mean by God, I am technically only referring to just the belief of theist(s) concept of a god, and not an actual god. And this concept of God does exist.

But some theists can't grasp this understanding, so they will say something along the lines of, "How do you know what God is thinking, what are your evidence?" It's funny how some of those theists actually think, that that question is the fatal blow to their opponents' argument, prematurely celebrating their "Gotcha" moment,
not realizing that their question can easily be turned on them.

I wonder, after this post, who will be the one to bring up the ontological argument for God.

 

[PAUL MARKHAM]

When I mean by God, I am technically only referring to just the belief of theist(s) concept of a god, and not an actual god. And this concept of God does exist.

But some theists can't grasp this understanding, so they will say something along the lines of, "How do you know what God is thinking, what are your evidence?" It's funny how some of those theists actually think, that that question is the fatal blow to their opponents' argument, prematurely celebrating their "Gotcha" moment,
not realizing that their question can easily be turned on them.

I wonder, after this post, who will be the one to bring up the ontological argument for God.

Theists constantly dispute the evidence of there being no god as if they have all the evidence. They have a book or books written at the time as political spin and propaganda. And 1,000s of books we can see are BS by ill-informed groups.

 

[CG Didymus]

Some religions or sects do evolve, adapt, use modern technology, address the needs of the day, or don't focus on social issues much at all. If the main goal is character development, that works in any period.

But yes, if the religion;s origin had hard and fast rules, an infallible leader, absurd class structures, then it's nigh impossible to adapt to change.

Baha'is usually say things that makes it seem like the other religions don't evolve... that their beliefs and practices were only good for a time gone by. But most all religions do evolve. But has the Baha'i beliefs evolved? I don't think they can. They are set for 1000 years by whatever Baha'u'llah has said. Too bad for the other manifestation, The Bab, his laws never got implemented. But, by what someone who read The Bab's book in Persian said, that might be a good thing.

 

[CG Didymus]

I never said that what other religions say about God not true and not logical.
I only ever said that the dispensations of the older religions have been abrogated, and that the older religions do not have the solutions to the problems that humanity is facing in this new age.

Good luck in trying to parse out what the older religions say about God by reading their scriptures. By contrast, what Baha'u'llah wrote about God is straight to the point, so why would you go looking at older scriptures unless you were a member of those religions?

You've never said that the Christian concept of the trinity is not true? You've never said that any religion that believes in multiple Gods is not true? If you haven't you should. You should make it clear that Baha'is do not believe in the trinity, Jesus is not God, and there is only one God, not many.

Baha'u'llah's writing are so flowery, I would hardly call them "straight" to the point. Shoghi Effendi is too wordy. I like Abdul Baha's writings the best.

 

[CG Didymus]

That is absolutely absurd. Since God sends the message to suit the times people are living in, of course the message would be different at different times, in order to fit the needs of the people.

What were the needs of the people when Jesus came? Did his message meet those needs? What was that message? How long before that message was lost and corrupted by his followers?

 

[night912]

I did not contradict myself because God wants nothing for Himself although God wants things for humans.
That is no different from me saying I do not want a new Mercedes for myself but I want to buy a new Mercedes for my husband.

In your attempt to justify your contradiction, you showed you did make a contradiction.

Here, I'll repost it.

A perfect being would have no wants.

Note that all Joe said was, "wants." He absolutely did not say anything about what kind of "wants" or to whom, why, how etc.

And now your response to what Joe said.

That's absolutely correct.

Definition of absolutely

1: in an absolute manner: such as
a: completely or totallyabsolutely certain

2a—used in speech as a forceful way of saying "yes" or of expressing agreement


There's nothing wrong with agreeing with Joe because you believed for certain that he was correct. Of course it would be a different story if what you said was only part of an attempt at straw manning him, only to have that strawman backfired on you just a couple posts later.

 

[Trailblazer]

You have no evidence to prove a god exists, what it wants, doesn't want, the only evidence we have is that the Earth evolved, the species on it evolved, the plants evolved, hominids evolved and homo sapiens evolved.

There is evidence but there is no proof.

 

[Trailblazer]

Prove he exists.

Prove he's not a manmade concept.

Prove which version of it is right.

Prove which messenger is right.

Set us on the right path.

Get rid of all the wrong paths.

I could go on but that will do for now.

Why SHOULD God do ANY of those things?

I asked: Why should God do the things that would convince you just because God is capable of doing those things?

You still have not answered. Do you even understand what I am asking you?

 

[Trailblazer]

How do you know what god wants, you don't even know if there is a god.

I know that there is a God and I know what God wants because of what Baha'u'llah wrote.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your goal is to convince everyone Bahaullah was right.

I have no such goal. I could not care less what people choose to believe. It is everyone else who has been hounding me for evidence day and night, in case you have not noticed.

 

[Trailblazer]

If god wants everyone to believe He exists and God does want everyone to receive his message. He's going about it in a very bad way.

God wants everyone to believe He exists and receive His message, but only on His terms.

An Omnipotent God does not kowtow to humans, so it is the Messengers or nothing.

It is not a bad way for God because God does not need anyone's belief or for anyone to get His message.
The only losers are the humans who reject God's Messengers and thus fail to get His messages.

 

[Trailblazer]

They mean everyone just follows what Bahaullah decrees.

Those are not decrees, they are principles. People can choose to follow them or not follow them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes it does. Oneness means dropping everything else. Do you rejoice that nearly half of America voted for Trump?

Baha'is is all about coming together and dropping the things that identify us.

Yes, I rejoice. Those who voted for Trump can keep believing what they believe, nobody can stop them, but they cannot have it their way, not anymore, because the majority has spoken.

Unity can exist in spite of diversity. That is part of the new thread I want to post, but I cannot seem to get out from under this thread and there are only 24 hours in a day.

 

[Trailblazer]

What makes you happy that nearly half of Americans who voted, voted for Trump?

Trump gets in, so a move away from what Bahaullah wrote. Trump loses so a move to what Bahaullah wrote. And we are all coming together. LOL

I am not happy that half of Americans are so bereft of any discernment such that they would vote for a liar who has no character whatsoever. In fact, it scares the hell out of me that such people are in my midst, since I live in this country.

Glad you noticed. Yes indeed, we are moving towards what Baha'u'llah wrote because the Will of God cannot be thwarted, and now the people are starting to fulfill the will of God. My personal life is a mess, but I am happy that the people of this country now have hope for a better future. Everything is unfolding just as Baha'u'llah predicted.

“The world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 136

“Beseech ye the one true God to grant that all men may be graciously assisted to fulfil that which is acceptable in Our sight. Soon will the present-day order be rolled up, and a new one spread out in its stead. Verily, thy Lord speaketh the truth, and is the Knower of things unseen.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 7

 

[Trailblazer]

If it existed god wouldn't shape his messages to suit us. It would send messages to suit it.

That is the funniest thing I have heard all day.

The Omnipotent God has no needs whatsoever, so the Omnipotent God does not even need to send us messages. He only sends them for human benefit.

God has no needs. That is precisely why it does not matter to God if anyone believes He exists or gets His messages.

“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339

Nonbelievers suffer by virtue of not knowing that God exists or what God’s will is for them, even though they do not realize it, but the major repercussions are felt after we die. Nonbelievers will regret not having believed in God and what they lost as a result. What will happen after that only God knows.

Yes, I care about atheists. If I did not care I would not spend all my time on this forum, but that does not mean I am trying to convince anyone that God exists or that Baha'u'llah was His Messenger. I just have some hope that maybe some people might come to that realization on their own. Call me naive.

A manmade god does send messages to pull in believers.

You are correct. A man-made god would do that, because a man-made god would have a need to pull in believers, for his own benefit.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is absolutely no point in telling people to come together to oppose Bahaullah, to find fault in what he wrote, to teach them he got it wrong, etc.

You can do it, but there is no point in doing it because people have free will so they will decide for themselves.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah, they mean: "Independent investigation of truth" which is correct only if you accept what the Bahai triad said.

No, that is untrue. It means you accept whatever you determine is true after an independent investigation

Why does not your Allah want every one to receive his message?

God does want everyone to receive it, but since people have free will, not everyone will accept the message.

 

[Trailblazer]

I do not see unity among Americans. They bought a record number of firearms in recent days. They voted nearly half and half for their different candidates. We will probably see them go to court soon. What unity do you see, Trailblazer? They are more deeply divided than ever.
How has your Allah testified the words of your 19th Century Iranian preacher?

You do not see unity yet, but this is just the very beginning... Biden has not even taken office yet!

But even after he takes office it will be a long hard road towards unity, and Biden even said that in his speech.

The dawn is coming, but the darkest hour is just before the dawn. Nobody can thwart God's Purpose for humanity.

“God’s purpose is none other than to usher in, in ways He alone can bring about, and the full significance of which He alone can fathom, the Great, the Golden Age of a long-divided, a long-afflicted humanity. Its present state, indeed even its immediate future, is dark, distressingly dark. Its distant future, however, is radiant, gloriously radiant—so radiant that no eye can visualize it............” The Promised Day is Come, p. 116

God’s Purpose

 

[Trailblazer]

What evidence can you give for this abrogation, TrailBlazer?

What Baha'u'llah wrote.

Well, atheists do not even believe in existence of God / Allah. What should we answer? For us, you are just talking non-sense.
If God / Allah does not even exist then how can this fictitious entity do this thing or that. Only Cthulhu or the Holy Flying Spaghetti Monster can do these things.

If atheists do not believe God exists, why do they talk about what God should do to prove He exists?
I am not referring to you, I am referring to other atheists who expect God to prove He exists to them personally.

 

[Trailblazer]

That makes perfect sense.

Religions are created during a specific time period and in reference to the people of that time. Men, the creators of religion, would have to know the future in order to create a religion to span infinity, and man simply does not have the capability to foresee the future. Heck, most times men cannot even properly understand the times in which they currently live.

People, society, evolve. Therefore, a religion created during a specific time period and for a specific people of that era cannot reasonably be used for a people and a society that evolve well beyond the past.

I am happy to see that someone finally understands what is so logical, and you stated it very eloquently.