Gaslighting Ourselves - Denying Our Own Religious Experiences

[Quintessence]

Most of us who practice or follow a religious tradition have had some inexplicable, mystical experiences from time to time. In the moment, they are so powerful, real, and visceral they threaten to overwhelm or psyches. A vision of God appearing in the mind's eye. The words of an ancestor spirit echoing in the back of our minds. A synchronicity so uncanny you can't help but know someone.. something was watching out for you.

And then, it is over. Wrenched back into the apparent world, the memory fades. Then the hard work of discernment begins. What does it all mean? What just happened? How does this fit into the sacred stories of my tradition?

In a culture where substance materialism has gained traction, those of us who have mystical or religious experiences deal with gaslighting from without. Naysayers who deny the very experience, chalk it up to brain chemicals or coincidence, and tell us to ignore it and move on with our lives. These are often easy enough to ignore. But we also have to deal with gaslighting from within. After we come down from the inexplicable, the mystical, the magical, we ask that question - "did that really just happen?"

Perhaps gaslighting is a strong word to use here, but I hope that you take my meaning. As we practice discernment - careful interpretation and contextualization of our mystical experiences - we sometimes question in the wrong ways. We undermine ourselves, our own traditions, and our values. We replace our own sacred narratives with those from without. At times this has us deny our own experiences entirely.

How do you manage your religious experiences and the meaning you weave with them? Have you ever been challenged by your own inner gaslight whispering "that didn't really happen?" What did you do with that feeling? Where do you think that feeling came from? Within? Without? Where did you direct it? Do you still believe or did the magic die inside? What came of that?

 

[fantome profane]

After enlightenment - Clean your rice bowl.

 

[syo]

I did that once, in the beginning. Waste of time. But I don't regret it.

 

[beenherebeforeagain]

confronted as I was with a set of abjectly terrifying experiences which almost shattered the walls of my reality, I did not deny them although I considered the possible mundane explanations. In short, I had what I now recognize as a shamanistic experience, which if I had accepted it, would have sent me down an entirely different path in life.

Instead, I resisted the calling; knowing as I know and believe now, I think I should have accepted it...but at the time I did not. I was left with paper-thin flimsy walls of my conscious mind, while outside howled a thundering maelstrom of chaos, which I feared to be lost in.

Did I gaslight myself? Hmmm. I chose to act as a mundane person for about twenty years or so, instead of engaging as a shamanistic person. I never denied my experiences and have always thought of them as shamanistic experiences; I have also always considered the mundane alternative explanations...but I doubt them...

I slowly tried to rebuild and reinforce the boundaries of my conscious mind...I was tested for mental illness and a lot of different biological and psychological disorders, and was pronounced healthy. But it took me years to feel reasonably safe and stable again.

The magic never died...but I did stop actively pursuing it for that long period, before I finally learned that I did not have to fear the strangeness, nor was I facing it entirely alone...

 

[Debater Slayer]

Most of us who practice or follow a religious tradition have had some inexplicable, mystical experiences from time to time.

Where I live, this doesn't apply to the vast majority of religious people I have talked to. They often openly admit that their belief is due to being convinced by scriptures, traditions, and upbringing, but it is very rare where I am to encounter someone who claims to have had a mystical experience or ascribes their religious belief to one.

In a culture where substance materialism has gained traction, those of us who have mystical or religious experiences deal with gaslighting from without. Naysayers who deny the very experience, chalk it up to brain chemicals or coincidence, and tell us to ignore it and move on with our lives. These are often easy enough to ignore.

I'm not sure how it is gaslighting for another person to believe that someone's experience was due to brain chemicals or coincidence. Sure, I can see how it would be obnoxious and rude to dismiss someone else's religious experience when they didn't ask for your opinion, and some atheists do this or even engage in anti-religious preaching. However, when a religious person brings up their experience and tries either to convince others of their beliefs about it or to use it as evidence for a specific religion, then I don't see at all how it is gaslighting for others to respond by clarifying what they believe is the likely cause of the experience (e.g., brain activity or coincidence).

Sometimes I get the impression that a materalist worldview may be met with a measure of demonization or negativity just by sheer virtue of not containing mystical or supernatural elements. But as an atheist with some materalist leanings—who also indeed believes that brain activity or coincidence is the most likely source of what we describe as mystical experiences—I have no problem whatsoever with belief in religious experiences or with people who have had such experiences unless they try to harm or impose their beliefs on others (and the same goes for any other group, religious or not). I take exception to being lumped in with gaslighters just because of my worldview.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Awesome post. I too had a mystical experience despite being an atheist at the time, but all along reason accompanied me so the mystical experience was more the reaching of a higher understanding or consciousness. Once you reach an awareness it becomes you and is you every second. Call it a new you if you like.

So I became aware of Who Baha’u’llah was and that God does really exist without any doubt over a two day period when I was alone in my unit. That was 45 years ago. And nothing has changed.

 

[Quintessence]

Where I live, this doesn't apply to the vast majority of religious people I have talked to. They often openly admit that their belief is due to being convinced by scriptures, traditions, and upbringing, but it is very rare where I am to encounter someone who claims to have had a mystical experience or ascribes their religious belief to one.

Drat, I knew someone was going to catch me on that one.

I had this worded a bit more softly before but decided to go with the stronger wording. Very important to point out that mystical experiences are not a strong component of all traditions and in some cases are actively suppressed and discouraged (and this is not necessarily a bad thing!).

I'm not sure how it is gaslighting for another person to believe that someone's experience was due to brain chemicals or coincidence. Sure, I can see how it would be obnoxious and rude to dismiss someone else's religious experience when they didn't ask for your opinion, and some atheists do this or even engage in anti-religious preaching. However, when a religious person brings up their experience and tries either to convince others of their beliefs about it or to use it as evidence for a specific religion, then I don't see at all how it is gaslighting for others to respond by clarifying what they believe is the likely cause of the experience (e.g., brain activity or coincidence).

That sounds fair to me. I think what I had on my mind when I wrote that were situations where outside narratives are intentionally trying to overwrite or replace one's own. Less of a "this is my interpretation for what happened to you" and more of a "your interpretation is wrong and let me correct your error." Both approaches have their utility under different situations.

 

[Quintessence]

confronted as I was with a set of abjectly terrifying experiences which almost shattered the walls of my reality, I did not deny them although I considered the possible mundane explanations. In short, I had what I now recognize as a shamanistic experience, which if I had accepted it, would have sent me down an entirely different path in life.

Instead, I resisted the calling; knowing as I know and believe now, I think I should have accepted it...but at the time I did not. I was left with paper-thin flimsy walls of my conscious mind, while outside howled a thundering maelstrom of chaos, which I feared to be lost in.

Did I gaslight myself? Hmmm. I chose to act as a mundane person for about twenty years or so, instead of engaging as a shamanistic person. I never denied my experiences and have always thought of them as shamanistic experiences; I have also always considered the mundane alternative explanations...but I doubt them...

I slowly tried to rebuild and reinforce the boundaries of my conscious mind...I was tested for mental illness and a lot of different biological and psychological disorders, and was pronounced healthy. But it took me years to feel reasonably safe and stable again.

The magic never died...but I did stop actively pursuing it for that long period, before I finally learned that I did not have to fear the strangeness, nor was I facing it entirely alone...

Wow, that sounds very intense! With the benefit of time and healing and hindsight, has the way you tell the story changed over time, then?

I sometimes wonder from time to time what our culture would look like if we still had a space for the shamans, the cunning folk, the mages, the mystics. We often don't have discussions about these experiences in our culture, so then we might think we're the only one and facing it alone. Often we are, lacking a cultural tradition to contextualize these experiences like our ancestors might have had. We grope around blindly, and sometimes that can be wonderful but it can also be scary.

 

[Quintessence]

Awesome post. I too had a mystical experience despite being an atheist at the time, but all along reason accompanied me so the mystical experience was more the reaching of a higher understanding or consciousness. Once you reach an awareness it becomes you and is you every second. Call it a new you if you like.

So I became aware of Who Baha’u’llah was and that God does really exist without any doubt over a two day period when I was alone in my unit. That was 45 years ago. And nothing has changed.

Wow... maybe when I'm more into crone territory I'll be able to tell a similar tale. I'm not sure how good I will be at counting the years, though. Something something roughly a few decades ago something something... haha.

I've been doing a lot of deeper work on my own tradition and it is dumb how things you think you know get turned up on its head. Did you find that connection with God deepening and evolving over time? Giving you new insights like "gee, it's like I'm a kid who doesn't know much all over again?"

 

[JustGeorge]

Most of us who practice or follow a religious tradition have had some inexplicable, mystical experiences from time to time. In the moment, they are so powerful, real, and visceral they threaten to overwhelm or psyches. A vision of God appearing in the mind's eye. The words of an ancestor spirit echoing in the back of our minds. A synchronicity so uncanny you can't help but know someone.. something was watching out for you.

And then, it is over. Wrenched back into the apparent world, the memory fades. Then the hard work of discernment begins. What does it all mean? What just happened? How does this fit into the sacred stories of my tradition?

In a culture where substance materialism has gained traction, those of us who have mystical or religious experiences deal with gaslighting from without. Naysayers who deny the very experience, chalk it up to brain chemicals or coincidence, and tell us to ignore it and move on with our lives. These are often easy enough to ignore. But we also have to deal with gaslighting from within. After we come down from the inexplicable, the mystical, the magical, we ask that question - "did that really just happen?"

Perhaps gaslighting is a strong word to use here, but I hope that you take my meaning. As we practice discernment - careful interpretation and contextualization of our mystical experiences - we sometimes question in the wrong ways. We undermine ourselves, our own traditions, and our values. We replace our own sacred narratives with those from without. At times this has us deny our own experiences entirely.

How do you manage your religious experiences and the meaning you weave with them? Have you ever been challenged by your own inner gaslight whispering "that didn't really happen?" What did you do with that feeling? Where do you think that feeling came from? Within? Without? Where did you direct it? Do you still believe or did the magic die inside? What came of that?

I think I did that for awhile. Tried to think things to death. Pick it apart. There were a few major ones I couldn't deny, but all the little ones...

With each day, though, I break away a little more. Its been a long time since a day passed where I didn't sense the divine, if even for only a short time. The Gods feel near; they are my friends. Everything in nature is alive, is conscious. It is a part of me; I am a part of it. I can't help but marvel at the wonder of it all. Not everything is great, of course, but here, I truck through, and that marvels me, too.

I live a blessed life in that I choose my influence. Sometimes solitude is a burden, but its also given me the chance to explore what's genuine to myself, and what is the thoughtforms of someone else.

 

[sayak83]

Most of us who practice or follow a religious tradition have had some inexplicable, mystical experiences from time to time. In the moment, they are so powerful, real, and visceral they threaten to overwhelm or psyches. A vision of God appearing in the mind's eye. The words of an ancestor spirit echoing in the back of our minds. A synchronicity so uncanny you can't help but know someone.. something was watching out for you.

And then, it is over. Wrenched back into the apparent world, the memory fades. Then the hard work of discernment begins. What does it all mean? What just happened? How does this fit into the sacred stories of my tradition?

In a culture where substance materialism has gained traction, those of us who have mystical or religious experiences deal with gaslighting from without. Naysayers who deny the very experience, chalk it up to brain chemicals or coincidence, and tell us to ignore it and move on with our lives. These are often easy enough to ignore. But we also have to deal with gaslighting from within. After we come down from the inexplicable, the mystical, the magical, we ask that question - "did that really just happen?"

Perhaps gaslighting is a strong word to use here, but I hope that you take my meaning. As we practice discernment - careful interpretation and contextualization of our mystical experiences - we sometimes question in the wrong ways. We undermine ourselves, our own traditions, and our values. We replace our own sacred narratives with those from without. At times this has us deny our own experiences entirely.

How do you manage your religious experiences and the meaning you weave with them? Have you ever been challenged by your own inner gaslight whispering "that didn't really happen?" What did you do with that feeling? Where do you think that feeling came from? Within? Without? Where did you direct it? Do you still believe or did the magic die inside? What came of that?

Frankly, I have more problem with religious people who never had had any sort spiritually transcendent experience. Their beliefs and religious actions seem limited to materialistic wish fulfillment or to shore up confidence than anything else. They seem uncomfortable when faced with the actual beliefs and theological insights of their tradition. It seems to me is that what most people wish for is some sort of little fairy godmother who looks after their interests throughout their life.
A puny God ...as Hulk said to Loki.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Most of us who practice or follow a religious tradition have had some inexplicable, mystical experiences from time to time. In the moment, they are so powerful, real, and visceral they threaten to overwhelm or psyches. A vision of God appearing in the mind's eye. The words of an ancestor spirit echoing in the back of our minds. A synchronicity so uncanny you can't help but know someone.. something was watching out for you.

And then, it is over. Wrenched back into the apparent world, the memory fades. Then the hard work of discernment begins. What does it all mean? What just happened? How does this fit into the sacred stories of my tradition?

In a culture where substance materialism has gained traction, those of us who have mystical or religious experiences deal with gaslighting from without. Naysayers who deny the very experience, chalk it up to brain chemicals or coincidence, and tell us to ignore it and move on with our lives. These are often easy enough to ignore. But we also have to deal with gaslighting from within. After we come down from the inexplicable, the mystical, the magical, we ask that question - "did that really just happen?"

Perhaps gaslighting is a strong word to use here, but I hope that you take my meaning. As we practice discernment - careful interpretation and contextualization of our mystical experiences - we sometimes question in the wrong ways. We undermine ourselves, our own traditions, and our values. We replace our own sacred narratives with those from without. At times this has us deny our own experiences entirely.

How do you manage your religious experiences and the meaning you weave with them? Have you ever been challenged by your own inner gaslight whispering "that didn't really happen?" What did you do with that feeling? Where do you think that feeling came from? Within? Without? Where did you direct it? Do you still believe or did the magic die inside? What came of that?

Kinda poisoning the well a bit to write off the position you disagree with as "gaslighting."

 

[SomeRandom]

Most of us who practice or follow a religious tradition have had some inexplicable, mystical experiences from time to time. In the moment, they are so powerful, real, and visceral they threaten to overwhelm or psyches. A vision of God appearing in the mind's eye. The words of an ancestor spirit echoing in the back of our minds. A synchronicity so uncanny you can't help but know someone.. something was watching out for you.

And then, it is over. Wrenched back into the apparent world, the memory fades. Then the hard work of discernment begins. What does it all mean? What just happened? How does this fit into the sacred stories of my tradition?

In a culture where substance materialism has gained traction, those of us who have mystical or religious experiences deal with gaslighting from without. Naysayers who deny the very experience, chalk it up to brain chemicals or coincidence, and tell us to ignore it and move on with our lives. These are often easy enough to ignore. But we also have to deal with gaslighting from within. After we come down from the inexplicable, the mystical, the magical, we ask that question - "did that really just happen?"

Perhaps gaslighting is a strong word to use here, but I hope that you take my meaning. As we practice discernment - careful interpretation and contextualization of our mystical experiences - we sometimes question in the wrong ways. We undermine ourselves, our own traditions, and our values. We replace our own sacred narratives with those from without. At times this has us deny our own experiences entirely.

How do you manage your religious experiences and the meaning you weave with them? Have you ever been challenged by your own inner gaslight whispering "that didn't really happen?" What did you do with that feeling? Where do you think that feeling came from? Within? Without? Where did you direct it? Do you still believe or did the magic die inside? What came of that?

I find them “peaceful” actually.
In my tradition, coincidences, feats of mysticism, extraordinary feats of spiritual experiences of various kinds and to an extent even good and bad fortune are treated as religious events. For lack of a better phrase. I guess because of the karma system. Bad fortune just means that you are paying for past misdeeds, and that hopefully good fortune will follow. A sort of mini penance, if you like.
Coincidence is sort of treated as a communication technique of sorts from the divine into our mundane lives. At least in my family. It’s a sort of superstition, I guess. Both in playful sort of way and being kind of serious at the same time, if that makes sense?
To experience spiritual awakenings or other events is to be strived for, and if it happens “by chance” that’s all the better

I suppose one could argue that’s unfalsifiable as you never can “lose.” And yeah, I can accept that as being the case. But I do not deny the scientific explanation or “chemical reaction” in the same breath.

Because the science merely explains the physical phenomenon. But isn’t religion supposed to be spiritual Aka beyond the physical?

 

[Quagmire]

I think most of us go through life with our minds comfortably closed.

Suddenly being faced with something that doesn't fit into our everyday understanding of how the world works can be pretty jarring.

And it raises uncomfortable questions:

How is this going to set me apart?

What kind of obligations does this come with?

What am I supposed to do with this?

Faced with all of this, I think a lot of people would just find some way to explain it all away, and most likely settle for explanations based on comfort rather than conviction.

Or if that doesn't work, they'd just put it out of their minds and pretend it never happened.

We all keep secrets from ourselves.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Most of us who practice or follow a religious tradition have had some inexplicable, mystical experiences from time to time. In the moment, they are so powerful, real, and visceral they threaten to overwhelm or psyches. A vision of God appearing in the mind's eye. The words of an ancestor spirit echoing in the back of our minds. A synchronicity so uncanny you can't help but know someone.. something was watching out for you.

And then, it is over. Wrenched back into the apparent world, the memory fades. Then the hard work of discernment begins. What does it all mean? What just happened? How does this fit into the sacred stories of my tradition?

In a culture where substance materialism has gained traction, those of us who have mystical or religious experiences deal with gaslighting from without. Naysayers who deny the very experience, chalk it up to brain chemicals or coincidence, and tell us to ignore it and move on with our lives. These are often easy enough to ignore. But we also have to deal with gaslighting from within. After we come down from the inexplicable, the mystical, the magical, we ask that question - "did that really just happen?"

Perhaps gaslighting is a strong word to use here, but I hope that you take my meaning. As we practice discernment - careful interpretation and contextualization of our mystical experiences - we sometimes question in the wrong ways. We undermine ourselves, our own traditions, and our values. We replace our own sacred narratives with those from without. At times this has us deny our own experiences entirely.

How do you manage your religious experiences and the meaning you weave with them? Have you ever been challenged by your own inner gaslight whispering "that didn't really happen?" What did you do with that feeling? Where do you think that feeling came from? Within? Without? Where did you direct it? Do you still believe or did the magic die inside? What came of that?

I would say that ignores a range of individual factors. Such as, I know I'm human and understand it's possible the entirety of a religious experience is just the brain being whacky.
Religious trauma can also drive people away, and it's said that Christianity is great at making atheists.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

This was my experience but in reverse. I was so desperate to stay a part of my religious community growing up that I tried to gaslight myself into believing circumstantial or anything out of the ordinary of my experience as evidence of the divine, to convince myself I really was where I was supposed to be in my faith.
It's traumatizing to lose such a big part of what was your identity, and I do think that trauma is a big part of what makes capitol A atheists. And certainly there are a lot of capitol A atheists who then go on to have experiences that take their spirituality a new and different direction. I can't say I won't be one of them someday.

While I'm still a substance materialist, that's just based on my experience so far. And from my perspective a spirituality without mysticism is still a worthwhile holistic approach to health and wellbeing, even if it's not valuable or the experience of others. And visa versa.

 

[stvdv]

Thank you for sharing. Good and useful post

Naysayers who deny the very experience, chalk it up to brain chemicals or coincidence, and tell us to ignore it and move on with our lives

These are often easy enough to ignore

Some RF Atheists are good at this. But all they actually say is "I don't feel that Love that you feel"

 

[stvdv]

But we also have to deal with gaslighting from within. After we come down from the inexplicable, the mystical, the magical, we ask that question - "did that really just happen?"

My Master blew my mind by materializing quite a large statue in front of my eyes...like 50cm. This I could not doubt, first hand experience.

Knowing this has been real I know anything is possible. No doubt for me that Jesus walked on water. I never think "did this really happen?"

When I have visions or dreams then I do check if they are "for real" or just processing suppressed emotions being released

 

[stvdv]

Perhaps gaslighting is a strong word to use here, but I hope that you take my meaning.

Gaslighting is the perfect word here, because sabotaging and undermining our self confidence easily creeps in. Better use such strong words, so that I take it serious and face it head on and tackle it immediately

How do you manage your religious experiences and the meaning you weave with them?

See it as a gift Granted by Sai Baba or God

And I pray to Him to show me the lesson

Have you ever been challenged by your own inner gaslight whispering "that didn't really happen?"

Sai Baba has been clear, that when He enters in your dream it is for real, His Will, not our desire. So, if I have a vision or dream clearly seeing Him (or other Saints, Messengers, Prophets, Avatars) I know it's real. Without seeing them I am careful to take visions and dreams to be for real

What did you do with that feeling?

I used to lack self confidence, but such experiences help me to overcome that. So such feelings I welcome as opportunities to grow by introspection

Where do you think that feeling came from?

God created all. These feelings are the "magic in Consciousness".

Most my feelings are created by sense impressions during the day. How all of that works exactly and where it came from is a mystery to me

 

[stvdv]

Have you ever been challenged by your own inner gaslight whispering "that didn't really happen?" What did you do with that feeling? Where do you think that feeling came from?

Within? Without? Where did you direct it

The feeling comes from within due to having been focusing without using my senses

Do you still believe or did the magic die inside?

What came of that?

The more I experience the Divine Magic the more I trust and the more confidence grows. And the more The Magic grows

Self Confidence, joy eagerness to grow
@stvdvRF