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galatians 6:7
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is the Devil to blame for all our problems?please give some thougts
IMO no,its just stupid Human beings
moorea944
Well-Known Member
is the devil to blame for our problems? what makes you believe there is a devil?.... people dont do the right bible studies. they've put a face on "words" like "lucifer" . the "devil" doesnt make us sin or do bad things. it's called "human nature". the devil is just a word that represents other words. thru out the ages, man has put a face to this "word". ......
example..... "lucifer" is a latin word. what is it doing in the Hebrew bible (which was written first).... well, it's not. it was added in after the bible was written. lucifer is a latin word meaning "bright light". the verse in Isaiah is taking about how the king of Babylon is going to fall. that's all. unfortunatly people read one verse in the bible without really referencing with other verses or understanding the org. verse.
but to answer your question..... the answer is no. hope this helps
example..... "lucifer" is a latin word. what is it doing in the Hebrew bible (which was written first).... well, it's not. it was added in after the bible was written. lucifer is a latin word meaning "bright light". the verse in Isaiah is taking about how the king of Babylon is going to fall. that's all. unfortunatly people read one verse in the bible without really referencing with other verses or understanding the org. verse.
but to answer your question..... the answer is no. hope this helps
Heneni
Miss Independent
So to answer you question. No satan does not make us do it..he convinces us that it is right to do it. When he convinces us, we listen to him, and he becomes our minds master, which means your mind slowly but surely becomes his property, and when he would need that mind for some reason, its his for the taking. You essentially have authority over your body and your mind...until such time that you have given it away. But it could still feel to you like its yours, until the day the master comes and wants it for himself.
Heneni
Heneni
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
is the Devil to blame for all our problems?please give some thougts
The devil is the Church's best friend, for he has kept it in business all these centuries.
Heneni
Miss Independent
There aint no devil...interesting. How long have you believed that there is no devil, and that he does in fact not exist. Can you give me a year when you came to this revelation?
heneni
moorea944
Well-Known Member
Heneni, dont worry, i mean no disrespect....
when you read Isaiah 14 v 12, do you really understand what it says, or do you see that there is a fallen angel called lucifer.........
i'll take it as yes......
first of all, they are talking about the king of Babylon.
2. angels cant fall. they cannot sin. it states that in the bible. God cannot be around sin. so where do you get your devil?
3. "devil" was just a word in the org. bible that means, "false accuser", "slanderer". man made it come alive thru the ages. Jesus called Peter "satan", so is Peter now satan??? of course not, Peter did something that Jesus didnt like. that's why he used the "word" satan. for it's real meaning...........
i'm not jewish, but any jewish scholar who really know the hebrew bible will tell you that. you should go get one too............
when you read Isaiah 14 v 12, do you really understand what it says, or do you see that there is a fallen angel called lucifer.........
i'll take it as yes......
first of all, they are talking about the king of Babylon.
2. angels cant fall. they cannot sin. it states that in the bible. God cannot be around sin. so where do you get your devil?
3. "devil" was just a word in the org. bible that means, "false accuser", "slanderer". man made it come alive thru the ages. Jesus called Peter "satan", so is Peter now satan??? of course not, Peter did something that Jesus didnt like. that's why he used the "word" satan. for it's real meaning...........
i'm not jewish, but any jewish scholar who really know the hebrew bible will tell you that. you should go get one too............
Caladan
Agnostic Pantheist
Moorea,
Its also interesting to note that until the 3rd century, Christians could be found bearing the name Lucifer, there is even a St Lucifer from the 3rd century(!), indeed Heylel Ben Shakhar (translated as Lucifer Son of Dawn) of the Hebrew bible (book of Isaiah) is a prophecy largely attributed to the king of Babylon. Lucifer as the devil is a later Christian interpretation. and technicaly the word Satan in Hebrew does mean adversary, and within the Hebrew bible it can be found in the context you have mentioned with Peter, these are all points to consider when one wants to explore the duality and mythology of the Christian faith.
is the Devil to blame for all our problems?please give some thougts
You pose an interesting question. And there is an accurate answer.
First of Lucifer was the chief of the host of heaven, an Angelic being who was the most beutiful and decorated Angel under GODs command. This one angel alone was given authority over a full 1/3 of the entire host of heaven. THe concept that history has simply put a face on a mere conceptual symbolism if foolish and non-scriptural. If you believe in the Bible, and believe GOD, and want to know what HE says, then the only authority or opinion on the subject which you should be seeking is GODs which are all laid out in the scriptures.
ISA 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
[how] art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the
nations!
ISA 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I
will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon
the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
ISA 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the
most High.
ISA 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
ISA 14:16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, [and] consider
thee, [saying, Is] this the man that made the earth to tremble,
that did shake kingdoms;
ISA 14:17 [That] made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities
thereof; [that] opened not the house of his prisoners?
ISA 14:18 All the kings of the nations, [even] all of them, lie in glory,
every one in his own house.
ISA 14:19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, [and
as] the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a
sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden
under feet.
ISA 14:20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast
destroyed thy land, [and] slain thy people: the seed of evildoers
shall never be renowned.
ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their
fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the
face of the world with cities.
ISA 14:22 For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut
off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith
the LORD.
ISA 14:23 I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of
water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the
LORD of hosts.
ISA 14:24 ¶ The LORD of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought,
so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, [so] shall it
stand:
This particular account gives a pretty concise account of Lucifer from GOD through the prophet Isaiah in regards to the god behind the Babylonian system and its king.
To answer your question however, NO. Satan is not responsible for all of our problems. Satan was only given authority over the earth and the celestial heavens. He has power over principalities of the air meaning that he has extreme power in the world in the eyes of the decieved humanity, but it is all an illusion. He can manipulated matter, call fire from the sky, manifest "living" beings and creatures, he can perform any number of miracles, signs and wonders, and has more powers than a human mind can really fathom. However, despite all of this is is still completely confined to working within the realm that GOD has allotted for him. He cannot breach his boundaries nor force free will. He can bend the mind, create illusion, implement thousands of years of false history, religions, and sciences to decieve humanity so that they choose to act in disobedience to GOD by polluting our perspectives and root systems, but he cannot make you do anything. He can steal from you, he can terminate your life, and he can destroy everything around you, but he cannot force you to reject GOD nor can he undo anything which GOD states that he cannot undo.
So your concise answer is no, absolutely not.
Dont confuse this with meaning that problems and the digression and gradual devolution of humanity and the world around us weren't perpetrated by him, but our free will and our faith in GOD he cannot take without our allowing him to.
PLEASE REVIEW NEXT POST FOR A LARGE SELECTION OF SCRIPTURAL REFERENCES REGARDING SATAN
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ADDITIONAL SCRIPTURAL REFERENCES REGARDING SATAN
1CH 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number
Israel.
JBO 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
JBO 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan
answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth,
and from walking up and down in it.
JBO 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job,
that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an
upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
JBO 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for
nought?
JBO 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy
power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went
forth from the presence of the LORD.
JBO 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to
present himself before the LORD.
JBO 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan
answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth,
and from walking up and down in it.
JBO 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job,
that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an
upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he
holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him,
to destroy him without cause.
JBO 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that
a man hath will he give for his life.
JBO 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he [is] in thine hand; but
save his life.
JBO 2:7 ¶ So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job
with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
PSA 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right
hand.
ZEC 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel
of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
ZEC 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even
the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a
brand plucked out of the fire?
MAT 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is
written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt
thou serve.
MAT 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou
art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be
of God, but those that be of men.
MAR 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan;
and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
MAR 3:23 And he called them [unto him], and said unto them in parables, How
can Satan cast out Satan?
MAR 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot
stand, but hath an end.
MAR 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but
when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the
word that was sown in their hearts.
MAR 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he
rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou
savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of
men.
LUK 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan:
for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him
only shalt thou serve.
LUK 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from
heaven.
ACS 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie
to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the
land?
ACS 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light,
and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive
forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are
sanctified by faith that is in me.
ROM 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.
1CO 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a
time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come
together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
2CO 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant
of his devices.
2CO 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of
light.
2CO 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of
the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the
messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above
measure.
1TH 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again;
but Satan hindered us.
2TH 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
power and signs and lying wonders,
1TI 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto
Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1TI 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
REV 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)
and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are
not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
REV 2:13 I know thy works and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat
[is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith,
even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who
was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
REV 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have
not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as
they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
REV 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they
are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come
and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
REV 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the
Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out
into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
REV 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the
Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
REV 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out
of his prison,
1CH 21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number
Israel.
JBO 1:6 ¶ Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
JBO 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan
answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth,
and from walking up and down in it.
JBO 1:8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job,
that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an
upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?
JBO 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for
nought?
JBO 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath [is] in thy
power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went
forth from the presence of the LORD.
JBO 2:1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present
themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to
present himself before the LORD.
JBO 2:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan
answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth,
and from walking up and down in it.
JBO 2:3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job,
that [there is] none like him in the earth, a perfect and an
upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he
holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him,
to destroy him without cause.
JBO 2:4 And Satan answered the LORD, and said, Skin for skin, yea, all that
a man hath will he give for his life.
JBO 2:6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he [is] in thine hand; but
save his life.
JBO 2:7 ¶ So went Satan forth from the presence of the LORD, and smote Job
with sore boils from the sole of his foot unto his crown.
PSA 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right
hand.
ZEC 3:1 And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel
of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
ZEC 3:2 And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even
the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: [is] not this a
brand plucked out of the fire?
MAT 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is
written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt
thou serve.
MAT 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou
art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be
of God, but those that be of men.
MAR 1:13 And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan;
and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
MAR 3:23 And he called them [unto him], and said unto them in parables, How
can Satan cast out Satan?
MAR 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot
stand, but hath an end.
MAR 4:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but
when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the
word that was sown in their hearts.
MAR 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he
rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou
savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of
men.
LUK 4:8 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan:
for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him
only shalt thou serve.
LUK 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from
heaven.
ACS 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie
to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back [part] of the price of the
land?
ACS 26:18 To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light,
and [from] the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive
forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are
sanctified by faith that is in me.
ROM 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ [be] with you. Amen.
1CO 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh,
that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1CO 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except [it be] with consent for a
time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come
together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.
2CO 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant
of his devices.
2CO 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of
light.
2CO 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of
the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the
messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above
measure.
1TH 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again;
but Satan hindered us.
2TH 2:9 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all
power and signs and lying wonders,
1TI 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto
Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.
1TI 5:15 For some are already turned aside after Satan.
REV 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich)
and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are
not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.
REV 2:13 I know thy works and where thou dwellest, [even] where Satan's seat
[is]: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith,
even in those days wherein Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who
was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
REV 2:24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have
not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as
they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
REV 3:9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they
are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come
and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
REV 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the
Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out
into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
REV 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the
Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
REV 20:7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out
of his prison,
Heneni
Miss Independent
Looks like he got you to believe he aint real. Jews, no jews, bible interpretation, no bible interpretation....its the bullet you dont see coming that usually hits you.
Heneni
moorea944
Well-Known Member
lucius7, sorry my friend, but your wrong on your answer..........
and i'll say this again.....
1. angels are immortal, they CAN NOT sin. meaning........ they cannot fall from heaven or Grace. God cannot be in the presence of evil. so how can your lucifer come about???
2. your reading the bible wrong. do your research........... your putting face on something you should not. they are talking about the king of Babylon. simple and clear IF you really study and understand the bible. lucifer, is a latin word. so why is it in the Hebew bible??? it's not.... if you want me to explain more about Isaiah, i will, just dont read a verse and create a monster, lol. the word "lucifer" was put in after the bible was written. and how do we know this???? get a hebrew bible.......... simple.........
and i'll say this again.....
1. angels are immortal, they CAN NOT sin. meaning........ they cannot fall from heaven or Grace. God cannot be in the presence of evil. so how can your lucifer come about???
2. your reading the bible wrong. do your research........... your putting face on something you should not. they are talking about the king of Babylon. simple and clear IF you really study and understand the bible. lucifer, is a latin word. so why is it in the Hebew bible??? it's not.... if you want me to explain more about Isaiah, i will, just dont read a verse and create a monster, lol. the word "lucifer" was put in after the bible was written. and how do we know this???? get a hebrew bible.......... simple.........
Troublemane
Well-Known Member
The devil's greatest trick has been in convincing us he really exists. :angel2:
"lucifer" is a latin word. what is it doing in the Hebrew bible (which was written first).... well, it's not. it was added in after the bible was written. lucifer is a latin word meaning "bright light".
Actually, this isn't strictly accurate. For one, Lucifer was the "morning star" in Roman mythology (see for example book VIII of Ovid's metamorpheses). It is formed from two latin words: Lux, meaning light, and the verb fero, meaning "to bear, carry." The passage in Isaih compares Nebuchadrezzar (possibly) to the hebrew Helal and Shahar, canaanite deities. When Jerome translated the bible into Latin, he used the roman deity Lucifer.
Also, although it is true that the hebrew "satan" meant merely "accuser," and that for the bulk of the OT period there was not specific "Satan" figure, by Jesus' time belief in a supreme evil figure was much more common.
Actually, this isn't strictly accurate. For one, Lucifer was the "morning star" in Roman mythology (see for example book VIII of Ovid's metamorpheses). It is formed from two latin words: Lux, meaning light, and the verb fero, meaning "to bear, carry." The passage in Isaih compares Nebuchadrezzar (possibly) to the hebrew Helal and Shahar, canaanite deities. When Jerome translated the bible into Latin, he used the roman deity Lucifer.
Also, although it is true that the hebrew "satan" meant merely "accuser," and that for the bulk of the OT period there was not specific "Satan" figure, by Jesus' time belief in a supreme evil figure was much more common.
Amazed
Member
Strong's Hebrew and Greek Dictionary translates Lucifer as a Hebrew word appearing in Isaiah 14:12:
H1966
הילל
hêylêl
hay-lale'
From H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star: - lucifer.
_______________________________________________________________
(KJV+) How349 art thou fallen5307 from heaven,4480, 8064 O Lucifer,1966 son1121 of the morning!7837 how art thou cut down1438 to the ground,776 which didst weaken2522, 5921 the nations!1471
H1966
הילל
hêylêl
hay-lale'
From H1984 (in the sense of brightness); the morning star: - lucifer.
_______________________________________________________________
(KJV+) How349 art thou fallen5307 from heaven,4480, 8064 O Lucifer,1966 son1121 of the morning!7837 how art thou cut down1438 to the ground,776 which didst weaken2522, 5921 the nations!1471
Amazed
Member
Oberon, your musings do not line up with Scriptures or Hebrew defintion.
Also, although it is true that the hebrew "satan" meant merely "accuser," and that for the bulk of the OT period there was not specific "Satan" figure, by Jesus' time belief in a supreme evil figure was much more common.
This is not true. Yahushua spoke directly to satan!
Mat 4:10 Then יהושע said to him, "Go, Satan! For it has been written, You shall worship יהוה your Elohim, and Him alone you shall serve.
Also, although it is true that the hebrew "satan" meant merely "accuser," and that for the bulk of the OT period there was not specific "Satan" figure, by Jesus' time belief in a supreme evil figure was much more common.
This is not true. Yahushua spoke directly to satan!
Mat 4:10 Then יהושע said to him, "Go, Satan! For it has been written, You shall worship יהוה your Elohim, and Him alone you shall serve.
moorea944
Well-Known Member
alot of times where satan and devil is mentioned they are referring to sin and human nature.
and you still didnt answer my queston...............
if angels cant sin, how did your satan come about???
we know now there is no lucifer, so if angels cant fall or sin, how did "he" come about, esp, if it's just a "word"................
and you still didnt answer my queston...............
if angels cant sin, how did your satan come about???
we know now there is no lucifer, so if angels cant fall or sin, how did "he" come about, esp, if it's just a "word"................