Forget a second about spiritual...

[Segev Moran]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Can you elaborate?

Sure.
Based on world history, we can clearly see that each leader who claimed he/she is doing something in the name of god, it usually caused much harm to many people.

My kids are healthy, but two of them are on the autism spectrum, which can be a bit intense and doesn't always allow for down time. I cope alright, but I'm not waiting for a day off anytime soon.

I wish you all the good and health possible. It is a tough task to attend to children, I can't imagine how it is when they require special needs.

Interesting you were atheist but aren't now. What caused you to believe, and what do you believe?

It is a very long explanation, but in short, I have learned that science not only contradicts god, rather slowly shows its more probable than not.
As for what I believe, is that most religions have in general the same idea, each using a different way of describing it.
I am not religious, nor will I ever be, as I think religion is an abusive idea.
So far, In my opinion, the most accurate depiction of our reality, is in the OT and most of the Jewish teachings (both scientifically and socially).

 

[Segev Moran]

God doesn't have to say it is a commandment in order to command us.

Indeed. This doesn't change the fact that the ten commandments are not called commandments in the texts.

 

[Segev Moran]

The first four are just god blowing smoke up his own arse and have no bearing on life or humanity.

Can you explain this? Which of the four is the most smoke generating one?

5, 6, 8 & 9 were established long before Judaism was invented. They are essential for cohesive society to form and flourish.

Can you give an example?

7 is flawed. Why shouldn't people have consensual, adult sex with whomever they choose as long as no one else is adversely affected? (Adultery in this context encompasses all sex outside marriage rather than just being unfaithful to a partner).

Sex outside marriage is rarely beneficial to all involved parties. most times it is also harmful to some of them.

10 is flawed. Why shouldn't we have aspirations and desires?

Who said you shouldn't have aspirations and desires?
This is not what the word "לחמוד" means.
If your desires are for you friend to breakup with his spouse so you can be with her as an example.. I claim it shows you are in a bad place.

Only 5, 6, 8 & 9 are meaningful in any way, and they are all enshrined in the laws of every nation.

Yet we are where we are. Something is missing.

Some people may break these laws, they always have and always will, but the majority abide by them.

Yes. because we treat them as laws and not guides.
"Laws are made to be broken"
Also, the vast majority of people who break them. do it for a reason that doesn't fault in them, rather us as a society.

 

[Segev Moran]

If a book of laws or instruction manual is written in such vague terms that passages can have different meanings, depending on subjective interpretation - it is not fit for purpose.

They are far from vague.
People simply "bend" these to suit their needs and when it doesn't work, they say these are useless

Religionists often use the "but in language X, one word can have many different meanings" as a defence, without realising it is actually an indictment.

I am not using it as a defense rather as a fact.
You can take it as a defensive thing or offensive, I don't really care.
The meaning of the word, is its meaning. The fact some people choose to alter that meaning to suit their needs, is a different thing.
When I say, Atom... it means a very specific thing. If you choose to interpret it as something else, that's where the problem begins.

And example of that can be:
"I am your god" => "You must believe in me".
The first is the actual meaning, the second is the interpretation.
I am just stating the actual meaning.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Regardless of the question of god or not, the Judaism, contains in it (as many other religions) many amazing insights about humanity and life.

The "ten commandments" (which are not really commandments, but thumb rules, and there are only 9 rules and one statement).

Looking at the history of humans, It is no doubt, that we are generations far away from living by these rules, let alone their more advanced meanings.

What is your take on them?
Why?
(Please don't use things like, because God said so or that its a spiritual thing and the likes)

To me,
These are proven to be the most basic required rules to thrive as a society.
So far, such societies, were... well... almost none, and even if such societies existed, they were quickly overrun by societies that didn't (or don't) really care about such rules.
When it comes to these rules more "advanced" meanings, we are even farther than where we are from the basics.

They don't apply to me since spiritual is the foundation of the tenants in scripture, and the definition of spirituality that shapes the ten commandments I don't follow. God tends to have a different criteria on murder, stealing, honoring parents, and grave images. The TC are totally irrelevant to my life.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Indeed. This doesn't change the fact that the ten commandments are not called commandments in the texts.

It is less important what they are called than what they are.

 

[pearl]

These are proven to be the most basic required rules to thrive as a society.

I agree, actually it only the first three that pertain to God.

 

[Segev Moran]

They don't apply to me since spiritual is the foundation of the tenants in scripture, and the definition of spirituality that shapes the ten commandments I don't follow. God tends to have a different criteria on murder, stealing, honoring parents, and grave images. The TC are totally irrelevant to my life.

I get what you are saying. I thought the same once
I can assure you, though, that without even realizing, you accept most of them

 

[Segev Moran]

It is less important what they are called than what they are.

Yet you decide what they are in contradiction to what they are called, meaning you give them your own meaning and decide the fault is on the writer
Its will be similar to running through a red light, saying that "It doesn't matter it is called a law, it is only a suggestion".

 

[Segev Moran]

I agree, actually it only the first three that pertain to God.

The first one is not really a commandment (or "rule"), rather a statement.
The second is not really up to you, its a disclaimer and an elaboration how it works.
The third is one of the most important rules and it is not pertaining god rather humans falsely claiming to pertain god.

 

[pearl]

The first one is not really a commandment (or "rule"), rather a statement.

Sure reads like one. 'You shall have no other gods before me'.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yet you decide what they are in contradiction to what they are called, meaning you give them your own meaning and decide the fault is on the writer
Its will be similar to running through a red light, saying that "It doesn't matter it is called a law, it is only a suggestion".

There is no contradiction with them being called the ten words and their being commandments. You are experiencing a breakdown in your logic.

 

[KWED]

Can you explain this? Which of the four is the most smoke generating one?

The expression means to be self-congratulatory. The first four commandments are just god bigging himself up. None of them are necessary to live a good life or for a functioning society.
The worst is probably “I am the Lord thy God, thou shalt not have any gods before Me.”

Can you give an example?

The oldest recorded prohibition of murder is around 1000 years older than the 10 commandments.

Sex outside marriage is rarely beneficial to all involved parties. most times it is also harmful to some of them.

This is clearly not true. There are many millions of perfectly harmless one-night-stands every week, and there are similarly large numbers of unmarried couples in long-term, monogamous relationships, raising happy children.

Who said you shouldn't have aspirations and desires?
This is not what the word "לחמוד" means.
If your desires are for you friend to breakup with his spouse so you can be with her as an example.. I claim it shows you are in a bad place.

Why shouldn't we look at a better car, house, etc than the one we have and think "I'd like one of those"?
If you are saying that we shouldn't dishonestly try to obtain something that isn't ours, then that's covered by theft and fraud.

Yet we are where we are. Something is missing.

Indeed. We are currently living in the most peaceful, prosperous, healthy time in history.
Do some people break the law? Yes, but the !0 commandments never stopped that either.

Interesting to note that there are no commandments against war or rape or slavery. Presumably god is fine with those. He certainly gives that impression in the Bible.

Yes. because we treat them as laws and not guides.
"Laws are made to be broken"

Ah, so "Do not commit murder" is just a guide, not a law? Interesting.

Also, the vast majority of people who break them. do it for a reason that doesn't fault in them, rather us as a society.

?

 

[KWED]

They are far from vague.

You claimed that the words can have a variety of meanings and are often loosely translated. That means the actual meaning is not clear, or everyone would interpret them the same.

People simply "bend" these to suit their needs and when it doesn't work, they say these are useless

Well, that's god's fault.
If parliament enacted laws that were so vague and easily manipulated, they would be amended.

I am not using it as a defense rather as a fact.
You can take it as a defensive thing or offensive, I don't really care.
The meaning of the word, is its meaning. The fact some people choose to alter that meaning to suit their needs, is a different thing.
When I say, Atom... it means a very specific thing. If you choose to interpret it as something else, that's where the problem begins.

But "atom" has a very narrow definition.
If I claimed that it meant "tree" or "to think", it would be demonstrably wrong.
Your argument is that those are both possible meanings of the word, even if you wouldn't use them.

And example of that can be:
"I am your god" => "You must believe in me".
The first is the actual meaning, the second is the interpretation.
I am just stating the actual meaning.

Not really. The latter is a logical implication of the former, not an alternative meaning of the words.

 

[KWED]

This means: "You should not believe any material or idea based on them have any power to manipulate realty".
Meaning, don't think an image or thought of someone have any "force" that can give you any value.

Kinda negates the idea of god really.

 

[KWED]

These rules have nothing religious in them

Apart from the first four which are exclusively and explicitly about god and religion.

 

[KWED]

In Hebrew they are not called commandment.
They are called "Diberot" (spoken words). It can easily be mistaken as "command", because it relates to voice, but the Hebrew word means say or speak.
Command, seems more like פקד, which means command in a sense of "give order".

That is irrelevant. Each one begins with "Do" or "Don't". Those are, by definition, commands or orders.

Out entire worlds economy is based on lies, deception, stealth and admiration of money.

Yet there is no commandment against rapacious capitalism and the exploitation of labour or the destruction of the environment. Bit of a shame really.

The number of sexual offenses is on the rise and man and woman literally have to scream for people to wake up, which many, I am afraid, are far far sleeping.

Not true. Rates of sexual assaults have been in decline for decades.
However, there is no commandment against rape or domestic violence.

So.. not stealing, means that taking slaves is not permitted, as you steal someone's "m/s/p".

This seems like deliberate dishonesty on your part.
Not only is there no prohibition of slavery in the commandments, elsewhere in the Bible god actively encourages it.

 

[KWED]

It clearly stated these are spoken words and not commandments.

If a leader speaks words to a subordinate, and those spoken words are "Do not do that", it is a command. Whether your argument is from ignorance or dishonesty is anyone's guess.

When god commands... it happens. It not a question of do or don't.

So no one in the history of the world has ever disobeyed one of god's commands?
Really?

 

[Segev Moran]

Sure reads like one. 'You shall have no other gods before me'.

Its like saying, you will not have other biological parents.
The word "shall" is misleading. It is not written in the Hebrew text.
The Hebrew text says: You will not have any other god, rather than You shall not.

 

[pearl]

Its like saying, you will not have other biological parents.
The word "shall" is misleading. It is not written in the Hebrew text.
The Hebrew text says: You will not have any other god, rather than You shall not.

Assuming that the Covenant initiated by God with his people is a contract;
The term ‘Shall’, according to Black’s Law Dictionary, means ‘has a duty to’. This definition illustrates a compulsory aspect associated with the duty specified. Thus, it is mandatory on the person or legal entity performing the duty. In contracts, the word ‘Shall’ is traditionally used to convey a duty or obligation in relation to the performance of the contract. Keep in mind that contracts are generally written in the third person. Therefore, the use of the word ‘Shall’, particularly in the third person, connotes a sort of command, thereby rendering the performance of an obligation or duty imperative. Simply put, ‘Shall’, particularly in contracts or legal documents such as statutes, generally refers to some form of compulsory action or the prohibition of a certain action. Commentators on the use of the word ‘Shall’ in contracts advise that it is best to use ‘Shall’ when imposing an obligation or duty on a particular person or entity that is party to the contract.
Difference Between Will and Shall in Contracts | Compare the Difference Between Similar Terms

And I believe there is reason for the first three alone of first Tablet, as they pertain to God.