For trinity believers: Does your world come unravelled if Jesus is not God,but ONLY Gods Son?

[Terrywoodenpic]

People have believed that Jesus meant that He is equal to God since He walked the earth and called Himself the Son of God.
This is what the early church believed about Jesus and we don't find members of the early church saying that Jesus was created.
That is something that JWs say however, and have done it by changing the Bible to make it look that way.
You do see that "all other things were created through Him" has a different meaning than "all things were created through Him" don't you?

The early church did not have the Bible or the Trinity doctrine to rely on, they did not yet exist. It is clear that they had many beliefs and many source documents, but It took literally hundreds of years to partially resolve and adopt..that process continues through to today.

There have been numerous synods throughout history where these matters have been considered and decisions made, many have been contradictory and others instituting the opinions of the day into the dogma of the churches.

 

[Brian2]

The early church did not have the Bible or the Trinity doctrine to rely on, they did not yet exist. It is clear that they had many beliefs and many source documents, but It took literally hundreds of years to partially resolve and adopt..that process continues through to today.

There have been numerous synods throughout history where these matters have been considered and decisions made, many have been contradictory and others instituting the opinions of the day into the dogma of the churches.

The apostolic Fathers who were associated with apostles, tell us that Jesus is their God.
In theory this should agree with the teachings of the New Testament, we should understand the New Testament in that light.

 

[seekandfind]

People have believed that Jesus meant that He is equal to God since He walked the earth and called Himself the Son of God.
This is what the early church believed about Jesus and we don't find members of the early church saying that Jesus was created.
That is something that JWs say however, and have done it by changing the Bible to make it look that way.
You do see that "all other things were created through Him" has a different meaning than "all things were created through Him" don't you?

I do see the difference. But the context only means what you are implying if you ignore much of the scriptures. The bible has a clear teaching the Jesus is Gods Son, which you agree. But then you turn around and say he is God too. Its completely illogical and not based on the bible as a whole.

They accused Jesus of exactly what you are claiming- that he is in any way equal to God. Jesus clearly showed that they pulled what he taught out of context.....

"I and the Father are one.” Once again the Jews picked up stones to stone him. Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself God.”.....‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? John 10: 30-36

Listen to Jesus not man.

Claiming the trinity is what the early church believed is a half-truth. Jesus never taught it. The apostles never taught it. It was only AFTER they were gone that the trinity popped up, which the Christians were clearly warned about such things.....

"I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among you and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves." Acts 20:29-30

"However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These will quietly bring in destructive sects, and they will even disown the owner who bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves. Furthermore, many will follow their brazen conduct, and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words. But their judgment, decided long ago, is not moving slowly, and their destruction is not sleeping." 2 Peter 2:1-3

You can research the origin of the trinity. Its well documented that it came about centuries after the scriptures were written.

 

[Kathryn]

The reason why my world doesn't come unraveled over stuff like this is because I figure I'm probably wrong about a lot of things but I just do what I believe is the right thing to do most of the time and when I stand before God that's what I'll say. Trinity: May be right, may be wrong, may be simplistic, but whatever it is, it's definitely above my pay grade. Yours too, most likely.

 

[seekandfind]

The reason why my world doesn't come unraveled over stuff like this is because I figure I'm probably wrong about a lot of things but I just do what I believe is the right thing to do most of the time and when I stand before God that's what I'll say. Trinity: May be right, may be wrong, may be simplistic, but whatever it is, it's definitely above my pay grade. Yours too, most likely.

Thats the thing though, we wont get to claim it was above our paygrade. Notice these that Jesus spoke/ will speak of truly thought they were serving God.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!" Mt 7:21-23



God had the bible written for a reason- for YOU to get to know, love, and do as he requests knowing his way is best.....

"For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope. Now may the God who supplies endurance and comfort grant you to have among yourselves the same mental attitude that Christ Jesus had, so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

I really do appreciate your humble attitude! But dont let it be an excuse for not learning what you are supposed to learn.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." -Jesus

 

[Brian2]

I do see the difference. But the context only means what you are implying if you ignore much of the scriptures.

I'm not implying what the text means, I am showing exactly what it means before it is altered at the hands of the Watch Tower Society. And I show that just by quoting the original text.

The bible has a clear teaching the Jesus is Gods Son, which you agree. But then you turn around and say he is God too. Its completely illogical and not based on the bible as a whole.

Jesus is God's Son. The question is if He is created or came from His Father, like a human son comes from his father.

They accused Jesus of exactly what you are claiming- that he is in any way equal to God. Jesus clearly showed that they pulled what he taught out of context.....

"I and the Father are one.” Once again the Jews picked up stones to stone him. Jesus replied to them: “I displayed to you many fine works from the Father. For which of those works are you stoning me?” The Jews answered him: “We are stoning you, not for a fine work, but for blasphemy; for you, although being a man, make yourself God.”.....‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’? John 10: 30-36

Listen to Jesus not man.

You seem to think that Jesus was saying that He is not the Son of God, equal to His Father.
In the same passage Jesus went on to say that He is God's Son and that He is in His Father and His Father is in Him.

Claiming the trinity is what the early church believed is a half-truth. Jesus never taught it. The apostles never taught it. It was only AFTER they were gone that the trinity popped up, which the Christians were clearly warned about such things.....

The Christians were not warned about the teachings of the apostolic Fathers, the ones who presumably taught what the apostles taught,,,,,,,,,,,,, that Jesus is their God.
The Christians were taught about heresies that went against such teachings, like the Arian heresy that taught that Jesus was a created being, and which came a couple of hundred years later.
And look, he did draw away disciples after himself and they claim to have the original teaching even when that teaching began a couple of hundred yours later.

You can research the origin of the trinity. Its well documented that it came about centuries after the scriptures were written.

When heretics start teaching heresies then the church needs to define the true teaching.
So the church first defined who Jesus is and it went on to be the Trinity doctrine.
So now, after Satan pretty much forced the church to do that, Satan now says "Hey look fellas, the Trinity teaching began hundreds of years later".

 

[seekandfind]

I'm not implying what the text means, I am showing exactly what it means before it is altered at the hands of the Watch Tower Society. And I show that just by quoting the original text.

You are showing what it says. You are implying what it means. There is a difference. If that scripture was the only scripture to exist, sure it could mean what you say. But there is an entire bible that shows thats not what it means. Every verse needs ti sync with the whole of scripture. That doesnt.

 

[seekandfind]

Brian2: "You seem to think that Jesus was saying that He is not the Son of God, equal to His Father.
In the same passage Jesus went on to say that He is God's Son and that He is in His Father and His Father is in Him."

He wasnt equal. What are you talking about? You think Jesus prayed to himslf, or someone higher? Listen to Jesus instead of yourself...

"The Father is greater than I am." John 14:28
" The word that you are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me." John 14:24

There are a ton more references.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

In fact, it does not even make sense to say GOD ‘created all things through Jesus’…

Hey Soapy, hope you had a good day!

I’m afraid we’ll have to disagree, here….

Does it make sense to say, “God saves people through Jesus”?
Certainly!
Jesus was / is God’s agent for salvation.

So why wouldn’t Jehovah God use Jesus as a “Master workman”?

The Berean Standard Bible renders Proverbs 8:30 as…
“Then I was a skilled craftsman at His side, and His delight day by day, rejoicing always in His presence.”

Understanding John 1:3 this way
makes perfect sense:
“Through him (the Word) all things were created; without (apart from; separate from) him was not one thing made.”

(See the Greek words used , and their explanations, here:

John 1:3 - The Beginning

Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

biblehub.com

Was not Jehovah God talking to someone at Genesis 1:28, where He said, “Let us make….”?

Understanding this, does not diminish the subordinate position Jesus is in, in relation to his Father.

But it’s just like how any caring father would act with his firstborn. He shows love by teaching him, and encouraging him to express himself, to gain confidence & build things!

You could look at it this way: God provided the blueprints, and Jesus put it together…. as a skilled craftsman.

Such a viewpoint agrees with Scripture, and God’s personality.

Take care, my cousin!

 

[Hockeycowboy]

While the chapter is about wisdom it is also attributed to Jesus.
If you dont agree thats fine. But how do you explain Col :15-16?

" He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him."

Keep in mind, you won’t find the word “other” in the ancient texts.

But at the time of the writing of Colossians, it was understood… the word “other” was not needed.

A similar semantic issue arises with the wording of 1 Corinthians 15:27. Notice the verse in the NKJV (New King James Version)… the first part says
‘For “He has put all things under His feet.” ‘

Does it say “all *other* things” there? No. So, does “all things” include God himself? Well, Paul continues….
‘But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.’

Why was it “evident”? Because, back in the first century, every Christian knew that Jesus wasn’t God. Just as they knew that Jesus was God’s First-born; Jehovah God’s only-begotten Son.

If what I said wasn’t clear, I’m sorry.
@tigger2 , could you help? You have a great way of reasoning on spiritual things.

 

[Soapy]

Hey Soapy, hope you had a good day!

I’m afraid we’ll have to disagree, here….

Does it make sense to say, “God saves people through Jesus”?
Certainly!
Jesus was / is God’s agent for salvation.

So why wouldn’t Jehovah God use Jesus as a “Master workman”?

The Berean Standard Bible renders Proverbs 8:30 as…
“Then I was a skilled craftsman at His side, and His delight day by day, rejoicing always in His presence.”

Understanding John 1:3 this way
makes perfect sense:
“Through him (the Word) all things were created; without (apart from; separate from) him was not one thing made.”

(See the Greek words used , and their explanations, here:

John 1:3 - The Beginning

Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

biblehub.com

Was not Jehovah God talking to someone at Genesis 1:28, where He said, “Let us make….”?

Understanding this, does not diminish the subordinate position Jesus is in, in relation to his Father.

But it’s just like how any caring father would act with his firstborn. He shows love by teaching him, and encouraging him to express himself, to gain confidence & build things!

You could look at it this way: God provided the blueprints, and Jesus put it together…. as a skilled craftsman.

Such a viewpoint agrees with Scripture, and God’s personality.

Take care, my cousin!

Basically… BECAUSE Jesus was not there in the beginning when the Father created the world and all things in it BY HIMSELF.

‘By himself’ cannot mean ‘With or through someone else’.

And if you are going to insist that GOD created through Jesus then you are suggesting a trinitarian view - in which case where was the third ‘Person’? What did the ‘third person’ do?

Jesus Christ never alluded to a claim of creating anything. It is the third century trinitarian ‘Christians’, influenced by Roman pagan worship and multiple Gods, who changed the preaching to declare the falsified scriptures (teachings). In order for pagans like the Romans and the Greek converts to accept Christianity it was necessary to make this new religious belief sound SOMETHING LIKE the Greco-Roman multi-God and Man-God beliefs BUT melded with the Christian belief that there is only ONE GOD.

But how to do this and keep faith with BOTH BELIEFS….!!!???

Answer: There are THREE [pagan] GODS but those three are yet ONE [christian] GOD…. Hey, that seems to work - We’ll preach that!!!

 

[Soapy]

IMHO Jehovah could not have created all things with out the Son having a part in creation

Why??? The ‘Son’ was not in existence so his could he have carried out the creation of been involved.

I think you misunderstand what ‘Son of God’ means… I do notice that no one really ever desires wisdom on this matter despite the number of times it has been presented for discussion.

ADAM was the FIRST HUMAN SON OF GOD.

HOLY ANGELS are SPIRIT SONS OF GOD.

JESUS CHRIST is the SECOND and LAST ADAM (see ‘Adam was… above)

‘The first sinned and ANOTHER was brought up to replace him’

‘For the first man sinned and through him all men sin and death through sin - but the last man brought destruction of sin and the chance of everlasting life through his sacrifice and death’ (paraphrase)

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Basically… BECAUSE Jesus was not there in the beginning when the Father created the world and all things in it BY HIMSELF.

Yes, he was…
In Jesus’ prayer to God, at John 17:5, Jesus said, “So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.”

Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus “the first-born of all creation.” It must mean something…I’ll accept it for what it says.

Revelation 3:14, referring to Jesus, calls him “the beginning of the creation of God.”

And if you are going to insist that GOD created through Jesus then you are suggesting a trinitarian view

No way! I’m my father’s first-born, & his only-begotten (from what I know… after he left my mom, he became promiscuous), but that doesn’t make me, him!
Same with Jesus.

Let the trinitarians twist it all they want, but I won’t deny the clear meaning of John 1:3, Genesis 1:26, & others!

I’m not calling Jesus a co-creator, either. Yahweh / Jehovah is the source of everything.

We currently know very little about spirit life & how they live & move — apparently outside of time — but until that time comes when the light reaches “full daylight” (Proverbs 4:18), we should accept the contextual definitions of the Greek & Hebrew words which Jehovah inspired the writers to use. (We still need God’s spirit to accurately understand His Word. (Luke 10:21) To get His blessing requires undivided worship & obedience.)

 

[Brian2]

Keep in mind, you won’t find the word “other” in the ancient texts.

But at the time of the writing of Colossians, it was understood… the word “other” was not needed.

A similar semantic issue arises with the wording of 1 Corinthians 15:27. Notice the verse in the NKJV (New King James Version)… the first part says
‘For “He has put all things under His feet.” ‘

Does it say “all *other* things” there? No. So, does “all things” include God himself? Well, Paul continues….
‘But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.’

Why was it “evident”? Because, back in the first century, every Christian knew that Jesus wasn’t God. Just as they knew that Jesus was God’s First-born; Jehovah God’s only-begotten Son.

If what I said wasn’t clear, I’m sorry.
@tigger2 , could you help? You have a great way of reasoning on spiritual things.

Well yes it does not matter if "other" is added when it is clear what is meant and if "other" does not change the meaning. In fact in 1Cor 15:27 it would be strange to put "other" in there when it is explained what is meant so as to remove any interpretation or ambiguity issues.
With Col 1:15-17 however the addition of "other" 4 times (esp now that the brackets are removed in the New World Translation) not only changed to meaning of the passage but makes it look as if the original Greek had "other".
John 1:3Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.
I have noticed no "other" added here in the New World Translation, and if the same reasoning was used it could be added a couple of times just to make the meaning clearer.

(NWT) John 1:3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence.

IOW in Col 1 it is not evident that Jesus is one of the things created and so that "other" would not change the meaning or make the passage clearer..................... esp with passages like John 1:3 which is so clear that Jesus was not one of the created things.

 

[Soapy]

Yes, he was…
In Jesus’ prayer to God, at John 17:5, Jesus said, “So now, Father, glorify me at your side with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.”

I am glad to tell you that that is a corrupted verse. My only disappointment is that you will fail to believe that it has been corrupted.

The verse WAS saying that NOW THAT Jesus completed the task that GOD ASSIGNED him, God to give him the reward THAT WAS AWAITING THE ONE WHO COMPLETED THE TASK.

A reward (prize) is AWAITING the winner of the race… If the winner of that race was A 100% CERTAINTY, the that athlete might say, AS A BOAST: ‘Give me the prize that was mine from before the beginning of the race”.

Jesus doesn’t boast!!

And, by the way, what do you say was that prize?

Colossians 1:15 calls Jesus “the first-born of all creation.” It must mean something…I’ll accept it for what it says.

‘First-born of all creation’ means ‘The most beloved of all that God created’

Revelation 3:14, referring to Jesus, calls him “the beginning of the creation of God.”

So you are saying that Jesus is a created being - the first being that YHWH created?

No way! I’m my father’s first-born, & his only-begotten (from what I know… after he left my mom, he became a pun hound, ie., promiscuous), but that doesn’t make me, him!
Same with Jesus.

‘Only Begotten [son of God]’ means ‘The only sinless [human made in the image of God]’.

Let the trinitarians twist it all they want, but I won’t deny the clear meaning of John 1:3, Genesis 1:26, & others!

The point about trinity is that is a tricksy belief that demonstrates how Satan deceived the world. If you are dismissive of its deception then you end up as you are now!!

I’m not calling Jesus a co-creator, either. Yahweh / Jehovah is the source of everything.

Jesus is not creator nor co-creator… quite right.
‘Father’ means:

• ‘Creator’
• ‘He who gives life’
• ‘He who brings into being!’

Jesus is never called ‘Father’ in regard to creation.

We currently know very little about spirit life & how they live & move — apparently outside of time — but until that time comes when the light reaches “full daylight” (Proverbs 4:18), we should accept the contextual definitions of the Greek & Hebrew words which Jehovah inspired the writers to use. (We still need God’s spirit to accurately understand His Word. (Luke 10:21) To get His blessing requires undivided worship & obedience.)

“We currently know very little about spirit life & how they live & move — apparently outside of time — but until that time comes when the light reaches “full daylight” (Proverbs 4:18), we should accept the contextual definitions of the Greek & Hebrew words which Jehovah inspired the writers to use. (We still need God’s spirit to accurately understand His Word. (Luke 10:21) To get His blessing requires undivided worship & obedience.)”

What does all that mean or pertain to… what is the link… I didn’t understand what you are saying?!!

 

[Brian2]

Brian2: "You seem to think that Jesus was saying that He is not the Son of God, equal to His Father.
In the same passage Jesus went on to say that He is God's Son and that He is in His Father and His Father is in Him."

He wasnt equal. What are you talking about? You think Jesus prayed to himslf, or someone higher? Listen to Jesus instead of yourself...

Humbling Himself and becoming truly a man, a servant of God and with His Father as His God, of course meant that Jesus has put Himself into a position where He is in a very low position of authority and power and into a position where He relies on His Father and speaks to Him, prays to Him.
BUT it does not mean that Jesus has lost the Sonship that He had with the Father in heaven sharing the glory of God. It does not mean that the Son has lost the nature of His Father.
That is just the type of Son Jesus is, a Son with the same nature as His Father. The Son's nature is an exact copy of His Father's nature/essence.
Heb 1:3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.

"The Father is greater than I am." John 14:28
" The word that you are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me." John 14:24

There are a ton more references.

There are a ton more references but they all have the same problem of not being interpreted in the context of Jesus having humbled Himself and become a man, a servant of God with His Father as His God because He is a man.

 

[Kathryn]

Thats the thing though, we wont get to claim it was above our paygrade. Notice these that Jesus spoke/ will speak of truly thought they were serving God.

"Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!" Mt 7:21-23



God had the bible written for a reason- for YOU to get to know, love, and do as he requests knowing his way is best.....

"For all the things that were written beforehand were written for our instruction, so that through our endurance and through the comfort from the Scriptures we might have hope. Now may the God who supplies endurance and comfort grant you to have among yourselves the same mental attitude that Christ Jesus had, so that unitedly you may with one voice glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ."

I really do appreciate your humble attitude! But dont let it be an excuse for not learning what you are supposed to learn.

"You shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." -Jesus

I feel very free, actually. But thanks. Surely you don't think you're the first person to argue or even to discuss what many see as contradictions in the bible. People have been debating the bible for centuries. Even what books to include in the bible! Which translation is best, etc. etc. etc.

 

[tigger2]

Hey Soapy, hope you had a good day!

I’m afraid we’ll have to disagree, here….

Does it make sense to say, “God saves people through Jesus”?
Certainly!
Jesus was / is God’s agent for salvation.

So why wouldn’t Jehovah God use Jesus as a “Master workman”?

The Berean Standard Bible renders Proverbs 8:30 as…
“Then I was a skilled craftsman at His side, and His delight day by day, rejoicing always in His presence.”

Understanding John 1:3 this way
makes perfect sense:
“Through him (the Word) all things were created; without (apart from; separate from) him was not one thing made.”

(See the Greek words used , and their explanations, here:

John 1:3 - The Beginning

Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made.

biblehub.com

Was not Jehovah God talking to someone at Genesis 1:28, where He said, “Let us make….”?

Understanding this, does not diminish the subordinate position Jesus is in, in relation to his Father.

But it’s just like how any caring father would act with his firstborn. He shows love by teaching him, and encouraging him to express himself, to gain confidence & build things!

You could look at it this way: God provided the blueprints, and Jesus put it together…. as a skilled craftsman.

Such a viewpoint agrees with Scripture, and God’s personality.

Take care, my cousin!

Keep in mind, you won’t find the word “other” in the ancient texts.

But at the time of the writing of Colossians, it was understood… the word “other” was not needed.

A similar semantic issue arises with the wording of 1 Corinthians 15:27. Notice the verse in the NKJV (New King James Version)… the first part says
‘For “He has put all things under His feet.” ‘

Does it say “all *other* things” there? No. So, does “all things” include God himself? Well, Paul continues….
‘But when He says “all things are put under Him,” it is evident that He who put all things under Him is excepted.’

Why was it “evident”? Because, back in the first century, every Christian knew that Jesus wasn’t God. Just as they knew that Jesus was God’s First-born; Jehovah God’s only-begotten Son.

If what I said wasn’t clear, I’m sorry.
@tigger2 , could you help? You have a great way of reasoning on spiritual things.

You are doing well, my friend. As for me, see how actual debate is treated here: Did you know Jesus is considered as a different god according to scripture? Start with #25.

 

[seekandfind]

The Christians were not warned about the teachings of the apostolic Fathers, the ones who presumably taught what the apostles taught,,,,,,,,,,,,, that Jesus is their God.

Humbling Himself and becoming truly a man, a servant of God and with His Father as His God, of course meant that Jesus has put Himself into a position where He is in a very low position of authority and power and into a position where He relies on His Father and speaks to Him, prays to Him.
BUT it does not mean that Jesus has lost the Sonship that He had with the Father in heaven sharing the glory of God. It does not mean that the Son has lost the nature of His Father.
That is just the type of Son Jesus is, a Son with the same nature as His Father. The Son's nature is an exact copy of His Father's nature/essence.
Heb 1:3The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of His nature, upholding all things by His powerful word. After He had provided purification for sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.



There are a ton more references but they all have the same problem of not being interpreted in the context of Jesus having humbled Himself and become a man, a servant of God with His Father as His God because He is a man.

No one said he lost his "Sonship". The word alone indicates they arent the same. Your very comments demonstrate they arent the same but then youll turn it immidiately to somehow insinuate they are.

"He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty" even shows he is not equal to God.

The Apotles definitely never taught they were equal....

"24 Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. 25 For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. 26 And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. 28 But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone."

 

[seekandfind]

I feel very free, actually. But thanks. Surely you don't think you're the first person to argue or even to discuss what many see as contradictions in the bible. People have been debating the bible for centuries. Even what books to include in the bible! Which translation is best, etc. etc. etc.

Feeling free and being free are 2 different things. Dont forget many will say "We did all these things in your name" and Jesus will say "i never knew [them]". I dont think thats where any of us would like to end up, at that time it will be too late to fix it.

God left us the instruction manual and its our choice to follow it or not. There is a definite outcome with either choice. But remember "many take the broad road". Where does it go?