For those who believe Quran is Mohammad's (s) words and Mohammad (s) is historically accurate.

[Link]

Salam

The Quran argues ALOT for miracles. ALOT for MIRACLES. And shows why Mohammad (s) should not be accused of doing sorcery because of similar or greater miracles.

It also in this context, of miracles being asked, says to go ahead and ask the family of the reminder if you don't know the truth, ask for miracles.

This put's some questions on those who believe Mohammad (s) made up the Quran but that he is historically accurate.

(1) Why would he argue so much for miracles in the Quran and not be able to perform them?
(2) Why would he argue that they were accusing him of sorcery for similar or greater miracles, if he was not performing them?
(3) Why would he emphasize his family and successors would be able to perform them?

If you believe Quran is not the words of Mohammad (S) or that he is not historically accurate, then, I understand you can say people made it up after him.

There is however a lot of proof Quran originated from Mohammad (s) in this world (of course I believe God is the ultimate origin of the words).

 

[Audie]

Salam

The Quran argues ALOT for miracles. ALOT for MIRACLES. And shows why Mohammad (s) should not be accused of doing sorcery because of similar or greater miracles.

It also in this context, of miracles being asked, says to go ahead and ask the family of the reminder if you don't know the truth, ask for miracles.

This put's some questions on those who believe Mohammad (s) made up the Quran but that he is historically accurate.

(1) Why would he argue so much for miracles in the Quran and not be able to perform them?
(2) Why would he argue that they were accusing him of sorcery for similar or greater miracles, if he was not performing them?
(3) Why would he emphasizes his family and successors would be able to perform them?

If you believe Quran is not the words of Mohammad (S) or that he is not historically accurate, then, I understand you can say people made it up after him.

There is however a lot of proof Quran originated from Mohammad (s) in this world (of course I believe God is the ultimate origin of the words).

Proof of (a) god.
Amazing

 

[Link]

Proof of (a) god.
Amazing

I don't know if it is or not. I haven't thought about this too much. I am eager to see replies and theories other then that Mohammad (s) did perform these miracles. What's their explanation if they believe Quran is Mohammad's (s) words and he is historically accurate?

 

[Sirona]

It's really been a long time since I read a translation of the Koran but if I remember correctly then Mohammed said he did NOT come with miracles but only with a "clear warning" given in a "clear language", Arabic. But I might be wrong, the Koran is not an easy read after all.

 

[Link]

It's really been a long time since I read a translation of the Koran but if I remember correctly then Mohammed said he did NOT come with miracles but only with a "clear warning" given in a "clear language", Arabic. But I might be wrong, the Koran is not an easy read after all.

It emphasizes he performed miracles but that the miracles would only be a clear reminder and warning, that he can't force them to believe in them. And it also emphasized for every people there is a Guide who can perform such miracles (13:7). Between Mohammad (s) and Isa (a), that guide was hidden, it was Elyas (a), and today it's the Mahdi (s), but they aren't performing in public.

When miracles aren't sent in public, it's due to denial of the miracles of previous generations that somehow has made it that God through his compassion, is prevented from sending such miracles.

"And nothing (ever) prevented us from sending with miracles, except the previous generations denied them...", that means Elyas (a) was hidden, due to how the miracles were treated by generations before him in denial.

Same with the Mahdi (a), he is hidden, only because previous generations denied the miracles as proofs and turned aside from them and didn't fear God with respect to them and made it difficult on the people reporting the miracles and holding on to it's performers (a).

 

[Audie]

I don't know if it is or not. I haven't thought about this too much. I am eager to see replies and theories other then that Mohammad (s) did perform these miracles. What's their explanation if they believe Quran is Mohammad's (s) words and he is historically accurate?

People will believe anything

 

[Link]

People will believe anything

I can't read your mind.

 

[Truthseeker]

Salam

The Quran argues ALOT for miracles. ALOT for MIRACLES. And shows why Mohammad (s) should not be accused of doing sorcery because of similar or greater miracles.

It also in this context, of miracles being asked, says to go ahead and ask the family of the reminder if you don't know the truth, ask for miracles.

This put's some questions on those who believe Mohammad (s) made up the Quran but that he is historically accurate.

(1) Why would he argue so much for miracles in the Quran and not be able to perform them?
(2) Why would he argue that they were accusing him of sorcery for similar or greater miracles, if he was not performing them?
(3) Why would he emphasize his family and successors would be able to perform them?

If you believe Quran is not the words of Mohammad (S) or that he is not historically accurate, then, I understand you can say people made it up after him.

There is however a lot of proof Quran originated from Mohammad (s) in this world (of course I believe God is the ultimate origin of the words).

From what I understand Muhammad didn't want to perform miracles, but pointed to the Qur'an as the miracle.

And they say: If only he would bring us a miracle from his Lord! Hath there not come unto them the proof of what is in the former scriptures?
Muḥammad ibn ‘Abdu’lláh, "The Meaning of the Glorious Qur’án", 20:133

Jesus performed miracles, but He also deemphasized them in my understanding. Moses performed miracles, according to the Old Testament, but there is doubt in my mind that these were actually done, and if Moses did them, that testifies to an earlier time in history when God felt miracles were needed to get anywhere with hard-hearted individuals.

 

[Audie]

I don't know if it is or not. I haven't thought about this too much. I am eager to see replies and theories other then that Mohammad (s) did perform these miracles. What's their explanation if they believe Quran is Mohammad's (s) words and he is historically accurate?

Thought you were claiming proof.

Explain what? Why people believe all
their different religions are true?

I dont, so I am not the one to explain.

 

[Link]

From what I understand Muhammad didn't want to perform miracles, but pointed to the Qur'an as the miracle.

This is false.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I can't read your mind.

I believe you.

 

[KWED]

Salam

The Quran argues ALOT for miracles. ALOT for MIRACLES. And shows why Mohammad (s) should not be accused of doing sorcery because of similar or greater miracles.

It also in this context, of miracles being asked, says to go ahead and ask the family of the reminder if you don't know the truth, ask for miracles.

This put's some questions on those who believe Mohammad (s) made up the Quran but that he is historically accurate.

(1) Why would he argue so much for miracles in the Quran and not be able to perform them?
(2) Why would he argue that they were accusing him of sorcery for similar or greater miracles, if he was not performing them?
(3) Why would he emphasize his family and successors would be able to perform them?

If you believe Quran is not the words of Mohammad (S) or that he is not historically accurate, then, I understand you can say people made it up after him.

There is however a lot of proof Quran originated from Mohammad (s) in this world (of course I believe God is the ultimate origin of the words).

Of course the Quran is Muhammad's words. How else could he transmit Allah's message to us?

 

[Suave]

Salam

The Quran argues ALOT for miracles. ALOT for MIRACLES. And shows why Mohammad (s) should not be accused of doing sorcery because of similar or greater miracles.

It also in this context, of miracles being asked, says to go ahead and ask the family of the reminder if you don't know the truth, ask for miracles.

This put's some questions on those who believe Mohammad (s) made up the Quran but that he is historically accurate.

(1) Why would he argue so much for miracles in the Quran and not be able to perform them?
(2) Why would he argue that they were accusing him of sorcery for similar or greater miracles, if he was not performing them?
(3) Why would he emphasize his family and successors would be able to perform them?

If you believe Quran is not the words of Mohammad (S) or that he is not historically accurate, then, I understand you can say people made it up after him.

There is however a lot of proof Quran originated from Mohammad (s) in this world (of course I believe God is the ultimate origin of the words).

I find the claim of Muhammad having the moon actually split up to be rather quit dubious, because if Muhammad really did have the Moon split up, then I suppose this would have been widely observed globally and widely recorded as a remarkable historical event.

Also,, I doubt Ramadan fasting is a divinely inspired command, this due to the fact Ramadan fasting can't be equally followed and adhered to by most everybody in the world.
Ramadan fasting rules, as written on behalf of Muhammad in the Quran, requires dawn to dusk fasting for all healthy Islamic followers worldwide during the month of Ramadan. The dawn to dusk fasting rules as written in the Quran does not apply equally to all persons in all regions. This law can't be applied equally to all regions of the world. The period of sunrise to sunset varies according to the latitude of where a person lives. Therefore, equal periods of day and night don't exist for everybody. Consequently, Ramadan sunrise to sunset fasting can't possibly be followed equally by all healthy Muslims. The length of time required for sunrise to sunset fasting during Ramadan is based solely on a person's geographical location. I think it doesn't make any sense and it's unfair that the amount of Ramadan sunrise to sunset fasting time required for each Muslim is different based solely on the latitude of where the Muslim lives. Because the southern most inhabitants experience very short days during summer month of Ramadan, and they would only be required to fast for a few hours a day. The northern most inhabitants experience daylight throughout the month of Ramadan, and they would die from starvation while fasting for a whole month without food and drink. Nowhere in the Quran is it written that people of the polar regions can break their fast at the time of sunset until sunrise of the non-Arctic country nearest to them. This law was added later in Islam in order to correct a mistake prescribed by Muhammad.

 

[Truthseeker]

This is false.

Fine with me if you see it that way. We will each go our separate ways.

 

[Link]

So far, we have no answers to any of the 3 questions.

 

[Link]

Fine with me if you see it that way. We will each go our separate ways.

The verse yourself is saying he's come with miracles/signs like related in previous books, in previous books miracles of Moses and others were recorded, it's saying he has brought same caliber of miracles. I can quote many verses to this effect including comparison to Musa and having been similarly accused, and that people did not believe in Musa, and so it's not different with him. In Surah Baqara it's showing he is being questioned about signs and miracles same way Musa was.

But I I have no idea where this notion he didn't perform miracles comes from as both Quran and hadiths claim he performed them.

 

[Link]

I find the claim of Muhammad having the moon actually split up to be rather quit dubious, because if Muhammad really did have the Moon split up, then I suppose this would have been widely observed globally and widely recorded as a remarkable historical event.

Miracles historically tend to be dismissed over time. That is Messengers all over societies all over the world were sent with miracles, but over time, the stories of the miracles are seen to be made up by people.

History could've recorded it only for it to be dismissed by historians over time.

Imam Zainal Abideen (a) miracles are recorded by both Sunni and Shiite and all historians who wrote about his life, but I doubt you would believe it based on this. You would dismiss it. Same with historians, over time, they dismiss miracles.

Sunnis called the miracles of Imam Zainal Abideen (a) "Karamat", they deny the implications of being chosen by God and say they are just honors God gives his friends. Same with much of Ahlulbayt (a) miracles.

 

[danieldemol]

(1) Why would he argue so much for miracles in the Quran and not be able to perform them?

We get this on RF at times, people argue for miracles in Christianity then when put to the test they fade away.

(2) Why would he argue that they were accusing him of sorcery for similar or greater miracles, if he was not performing them?

What alleged miracles are these in response to? You have to remember we are talking about a pre-scientific people, I seem to remember something about Muhammad being a poet possessed, if these pre-scientific peoples considered mere poetry to be a sign of the supernatural it is hardly any wonder they accused him of sorcery.

(3) Why would he emphasize his family and successors would be able to perform them?

Where does it say that in the Quran?

In my opinion.

 

[Link]

Where does it say that in the Quran?

بَلْ قَالُوا أَضْغَاثُ أَحْلَامٍ بَلِ افْتَرَاهُ بَلْ هُوَ شَاعِرٌ فَلْيَأْتِنَا بِآيَةٍ كَمَا أُرْسِلَ الْأَوَّلُونَ 5 مَا آمَنَتْ قَبْلَهُمْ مِنْ قَرْيَةٍ أَهْلَكْنَاهَا ۖ أَفَهُمْ يُؤْمِنُونَ 6 وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلَّا رِجَالًا نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ ۖ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ

Verse 21:5 says let him bring a sign like how previous ones were sent (ie. Prophets and Messengers in the past were sent with miracles).
Then 21:6 says people didn't believe in the past, so we'll see if they will believe.
Then 21:7 says And (in response to all this) we didn't send any before you except (groups of) men who we revealed to, so (go ahead) ask the family of the reminder if you do not know.

Therefore you can conclude per these verses Ahle-Thikr are capable and will even show such signs by God's permission, but per the verse before it's not a guarantee for people to accept and believe on account of them.

The Ahle-Thikr verse in Surah Nahl is similar, but means something different. There it means it's part of relying on God to seek clarification of Quran and knowledge of the religion from the family of the reminder.

Here though in Surah Anbiya, it's in context of miracles.

 

[danieldemol]

بَلْ قَالُوا أَضْغَاثُ أَحْلَامٍ بَلِ افْتَرَاهُ بَلْ هُوَ شَاعِرٌ فَلْيَأْتِنَا بِآيَةٍ كَمَا أُرْسِلَ الْأَوَّلُونَ 5 مَا آمَنَتْ قَبْلَهُمْ مِنْ قَرْيَةٍ أَهْلَكْنَاهَا ۖ أَفَهُمْ يُؤْمِنُونَ 6 وَمَا أَرْسَلْنَا قَبْلَكَ إِلَّا رِجَالًا نُوحِي إِلَيْهِمْ ۖ فَاسْأَلُوا أَهْلَ الذِّكْرِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ

Verse 21:5 says let him bring a sign like how previous ones were sent (ie. Prophets and Messengers in the past were sent with miracles).
Then 21:6 says people didn't believe in the past, so we'll see if they will believe.
Then 21:7 says And (in response to all this) we didn't send any before you except (groups of) men who we revealed to, so (go ahead) ask the family of the reminder if you do not know.

Therefore you can conclude per these verses Ahle-Thikr are capable and will even show such signs by God's permission, but per the verse before it's not a guarantee for people to accept and believe on account of them.

The Ahle-Thikr verse in Surah Nahl is similar, but means something different. There it means it's part of relying on God to seek clarification of Quran and knowledge of the religion from the family of the reminder.

Here though in Surah Anbiya, it's in context of miracles.

I've taken the liberty of copying the translations from the website you sourced from. here they are;
21:5 But they said, ‘[They are] muddled dreams!’ ‘Indeed, he has fabricated it!’ ‘Indeed, he is a poet!’ ‘Let him bring us a sign, like those sent to the former generations.’
(My take, Muhammad has provided alleged revelation but no miracles)
21:6 No town that We destroyed before them believed. Will these then have faith [if they are sent signs]?
(My take, Muhammad is threatening them with destruction, and saying they wouldn't believe even if they are sent signs. Note that He is not showing them signs, just threatening them with destruction and asking if there is any point to sending signs.)
21:7 We did not send [any apostles] before you except as men to whom We revealed. Ask the People of the Reminder if you do not know.
(My take: The "People of the Reminder" is ambiguous, without extra Quranic material I have no way of knowing whether or not this simply refers to Jews and Christians. Compare it for example to Yusuf Ali's translation;

21:7(Yusuf Ali) Before thee also the apostles we sent were but men to whom We granted inspiration: if ye realize this not ask of those who possess the Message.

My conclusion. You have put heavy spin on the verses and added wishful thinking.

In my opinion.