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Flood texts and terminologies

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Ekleipsis, Mar 20, 2017.

  1. Ekleipsis

    Ekleipsis Member

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    Thought I'd start a thread we could discuss the use of " flood " terminologies in ancient texts

    My apologies if this is posted in the wrong section, please move wherever necessary

    ----------------------

    To begin with, I'd like to point out that there are several widely varying instances of flood terminologies within the context of classical Mesopotamian literature

    Most folks make the assumption that in ancient literature " the flood " just refers to exactly that, a flood

    Not just any flood, but the flood described in the Bible, a worldwide flood

    Generally the assumption is that the older texts like the " Gilgamesh epic " gave a foundation to the Bible's story

    Alas, it's not that simple ( Nothing ever is )

    There are actually different uses of flood terminologies, and they have little to nothing to do with any actual flood

    A). There is the use of the " flood " as descriptive term, as the attribute of a conquering ruler / king / god ( All the same at one time in their history )

    B). There is the use of the word " flood " as a determinative in languages like Akkadian

    C). There is the use of the word " flood " to describe the magnitude of an eclipse or an eclipse itself




    Here are three examples to get us started:

    The Sumerian creation epic :The Enuma Anu Enlil


    [​IMG]





    A.R George's translations of the name of Nippur, along with it's many sobriquet ( nicknames )

    Nippur is the city that conspiracy theorists constantly claim is a planet called " niburu " ( LOL ! )

    Several of the names use the " uru " flood determinant

    " Uru " is a little more complex, because over time it goes from a word in common use, to a silent determinative used like the " ki " determinative


    [​IMG]



    The source of the determinative " uru " and some insight to it's dual usage




    [​IMG]


    In the spoken form, it means " flood / deluge ", but in the literature, it refers to the personality of the conquering ruler / king / god

    " He came on like a flood / deluge " ( Example, paraphrased )




    Sin-leqi-unnini's 1st person treatment of the Gilgmesh epic


    [​IMG]



    Take careful note that the " flood " in Gilgamesh does not refer to a water flood, ( see " amaru " )

    Most folks are unaware that Sin-Leqi-unnini was a proto-Christ character in that he was an initiated atonement priest

    ( Granted the Gilgmesh texts are actually quite more complex than the everyday reader is aware of, they are astronomical texts that contain a very specific type of notations used ONLY for mathematical astronomy, but that is probably best left for another time )






    If you've waded your way through Mesopotamian literature, and databases like the ePSD and the ETCSL, you may already be familiar with these various " flood " terms and their uses





    So, hope I didn't post anything too confusing for readers, just wanting to spark some conversation

    Thanks
     
  2. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    This is good stuff and useful information, but what are you looking for debate on? A specific use of the word in a single context or particular example?
     
  3. Ekleipsis

    Ekleipsis Member

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    oh, ok, well, then delete it / move it as you see fit

    That is a good point, there is no debate
     
  4. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    OK. Nice share.

    Hey - I got this great sweet-n-sour brisket recipe if anybody is interested.
     
  5. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Epic of Gilgamesh - Wikipedia

    I have read some of it in English, and I've looked at summaries. This epic esteems fighting power and bravado above any human relationship and any promise. In this epic, the strongest can do no wrong. All is forgiven through war.

    It is the complete opposite with the flood of Noah. This flood happens as a result of the violence in the Earth. The violence is detested, opposing the Akkadian Gilgamesh values.

    So they are two stories which both contain floods but are from vastly different points of view.
     
  6. Goddess_Ashtara

    Goddess_Ashtara NIN MOJAVE AK IMEN

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    It is important to understand that the Epic of Gilgamesh is not even about a flood, it is about a demigod's quest to achieve immortality.

    The flood myth described by Utnapishtim to Gilgamesh takes place across one tablet, but Gilgamesh's adventure takes place across many tablets. It is but a single chapter in a much larger story.

    That said, the flood myth described by Utnapishtim to Gilgemesh is obviously connected to the Old Testament flood myth, with very minor differences...

    __________________


    -Enlil decides to destroy humanity in a flood, because he feels that humanity has become loud and obnoxious. (As his primordial ancestor Abzu once felt about him and the other younger gods)
    -YHVH decides to destroy humanity in a flood, because Man has become corrupt.

    -Enki warns Utnapishtim about the flood and advises him to construct an ark, so that he might be the preserver of life.
    -YHVH warns Noah about the flood, and advises him to construct an ark, so that he might be the preserver of life.

    -Utnapishtim constructs the ark, and allows within it his family and the people of his village, along with many animals.
    -Noah constructs the ark, and allows within it his family, along with several of every animal.

    -The deluge begins.
    -The deluge begins.

    -It rains for six days and seven nights.
    -It rains for forty days and forty nights.

    -Humanity is destroyed, minus the inhabitants of the ark. Man returns to clay.
    -Humanity is destroyed, minus the inhabitants of the ark. God reverses Creation.

    -The storm subsides.
    -The storm subsides.

    -The ark comes to rest on a mountain (somewhere in the place we now call the Middle East).
    -The ark comes to rest on a mountain (somewhere in the place we now call the Middle East).

    -Utnapishtim opens a window, and sends out birds to learn to learn if the waters have receded (a dove, a swallow, and a raven).
    -Noah opens a window, and sends out birds to learn if the waters have receded (a raven, a dove, and then the same dove again twice).

    -Utnapishtim sends out a dove, who flies around and returns. He releases a swallow, who flies around and returns. He releases a raven, who flies off and does not return.

    -Noah sends out a raven, who flies around and returns. He sends out a dove, who flies around and returns. He sends the same dove again, who returns with an olive leaf. Upon releasing the dove a final time, the bird does not return.

    -The inhabitants of the ark are released into the land.
    -The inhabitants of the ark are released into the land.

    -Sacrifices are made to the gods.
    -Sacrifices are made to YHVH.

    -The gods "smelt the fragrance, the pleasing fragrance", and gathered over the sacrifice.
    -YHVH smells the "pleasing aroma", the "sweet savour"...

    -Utnapishtim and his wife are blessed by the Gods and granted immortality.
    -Noah is blessed by God, who promises he will never again destroy all life on Earth.



    _________________

    -Epic of Gilgamesh (Tablet XI)
    -Genesis (Chapters 6,7, & 8)



     
    #6 Goddess_Ashtara, Mar 22, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2017
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