Flat Earth in the Holy Bible!

[Bunyip]

Judgement did come on that Jewish system within 40 years. But the prophesy was about more than one conclusion of an age/system of things. And there is a difference in meaning between parousia and "coming." The actual Greek word for coming is used 8 times in Matthew chapters 24 and 25 and it does mean arriving, but for the question was in relation to Christ's parousia which is a word contrasted with "absence". (Mt 24:3; Php 2:12) It is more completely understood as "presence", someone that has arrived and then stays around for a while.

We saw the beginning of the composite sign of Christ's invisible presence with how the world has been turned on end since WWI. That was a few months shy of 101 years ago. He is due to arrive in a more undeniable way soon as pointed out by the "generation" you mentioned.

Rather than keeping to a generation as the lifespan of one individual, we have to realize that a generation at most is 2 groups of people whose lives overlap.
Take for instance Joseph's generation. He was the 11th of 12 boys. Some of his generation lived before him and some died after him, but it was still "a" generation.

That was a truly incredible feat of mental gymnastics. Mathew 16:28 clears up your misunderstanding - Jesus tells the people with him that some of them will still live when he returns. No mention of the Greek word for 'generation'.

 

[Bunyip]

The Greek word used for generation has six definitions, most of which aren't one person's generation. It could as easily be rendered "this Jewish people will not pass away before I Return" for one of several examples.

Which is why seeing Israel as a Jewish state again holds import for students of prophecy.

The word 'generation' does not actually appear in Mathew 16:28. Just that some of those there will still live when he returns. That should clear up the context for you.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

From the verses i dont read that bible says earth is flat.

I wonder those who though that earth was flat: did they never look at the moon and sun?

If i lived 3.000 years ago, i would state earth is round by just looking at the moon(Full moon) and sun, coming to realize earth must be like that aswell(in shape).

 

[BilliardsBall]

The word 'generation' does not actually appear in Mathew 16:28. Just that some of those there will still live when he returns. That should clear up the context for you.

I think you are confusing things like Jesus's statement in a different chapter that some of the apostles would see His Kingdom while alive (Matthew 16) with Matthew 24:

Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
I only have a year of ancient Greek from my university studies, but let me post meanings of generation then highlight ones that indicate it's not a false prophecy, perhaps:

γενεά "genea" or "generation"

1. fathered, birth, nativity - Israel, which existed before and after Jesus

2. that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family - ibid

3. the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy - ibid

4. metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character - ibid

5. esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation - Israel was scattered but not, as in other prophecies destroyed, it revived in 1948

6. the whole multitude of men living at the same time - "this Jewish people"

7. an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years - YES, here's the seventh possible interpretation that would make this a false prophecy

The natural rendering is "this Jewish people will not pass away before I come back here". Israel is miraculously a Jewish state after a 2,500 year diaspora! Powerful evidence for, not against, NT prophecy.

Thanks.

 

[Bunyip]

I think you are confusing things like Jesus's statement in a different chapter that some of the apostles would see His Kingdom while alive (Matthew 16) with Matthew 24:

Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
I only have a year of ancient Greek from my university studies, but let me post meanings of generation then highlight ones that indicate it's not a false prophecy, perhaps:

γενεά "genea" or "generation"

1. fathered, birth, nativity - Israel, which existed before and after Jesus

2. that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family - ibid

3. the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy - ibid

4. metaph. a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character - ibid

5. esp. in a bad sense, a perverse nation - Israel was scattered but not, as in other prophecies destroyed, it revived in 1948

6. the whole multitude of men living at the same time - "this Jewish people"

7. an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years - YES, here's the seventh possible interpretation that would make this a false prophecy

The natural rendering is "this Jewish people will not pass away before I come back here". Israel is miraculously a Jewish state after a 2,500 year diaspora! Powerful evidence for, not against, NT prophecy.

Thanks.

I do love mental gymnastics - and you are so good at it. Unfortunately we have a context for that use of 'generation' and it meant within their lifetimes.
Awesomely hopeful and optimistic attempt though.

 

[Nietzsche]

The natural rendering is "this Jewish people will not pass away before I come back here". Israel is miraculously a Jewish state after a 2,500 year diaspora! Powerful evidence for, not against, NT prophecy.

Whoa there now. There is nothing miraculous about the formation of Modern Israel(a state, I should add, that has zero continuity with the Ancient Israelites, the Jewish Kingdoms, or even the Roman provinces outside of territorial similarities). Need we mention why it was formed? The only miracle is that there were enough Jews left to populate it.

Wenn es einen gott gibt muß er mich um verzeihung bitten.

 

[Nietzsche]

From the verses i dont read that bible says earth is flat.

I wonder those who though that earth was flat: did they never look at the moon and sun?

If i lived 3.000 years ago, i would state earth is round by just looking at the moon(Full moon) and sun, coming to realize earth must be like that aswell(in shape).

The notion of "gravity" hadn't yet been well defined, amongst many, many other things. People would've argued that the sun & moon were discs, and far smaller(and thus also far closer to us).

 

[BilliardsBall]

I do love mental gymnastics - and you are so good at it. Unfortunately we have a context for that use of 'generation' and it meant within their lifetimes.
Awesomely hopeful and optimistic attempt though.

I call baloney. I also call a discrete refusal to honor time-tested work of linguists and academics. YOUR deliberate misunderstanding is absolutely anti-academic (if unintentionally so).

Sorry, the context of the message given there by Jesus was a BUNCH of things that had to happen BEFORE His return, including the destruction of the second temple, the return from diaspora, Armageddon, and the construction and installation of worship at a third temple. No. You are wrong both in context and in language assessment.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Whoa there now. There is nothing miraculous about the formation of Modern Israel(a state, I should add, that has zero continuity with the Ancient Israelites, the Jewish Kingdoms, or even the Roman provinces outside of territorial similarities). Need we mention why it was formed? The only miracle is that there were enough Jews left to populate it.

Wenn es einen gott gibt muß er mich um verzeihung bitten.

I know many second and third generation Italian and Irish Americans who speak neither Italian nor Gaelic. YOU ARE RIGHT. It was miraculous that the Jewish people retained their race, cultural identity, Hebrew language, holy scriptures, etc. through 2,500 years of diaspora.

Benjamin Disraeli was asked for good proof of the truth of the Bible. He said, "Look at the Jewish people". All was prophesied including a secular, Jewish Israel would arise before a Messianic Israel (Ezekiel's dry bones prophecy).

 

[Nietzsche]

I know many second and third generation Italian and Irish Americans who speak neither Italian nor Gaelic.

And? Perhaps you're unaware, but the Hebrew that Israel speaks today is very much a Creole Language. It contains significant portions of Arabic, Yiddish(a Germanic-Hebrew fusion language) and other elements that would render it utterly unintelligible to anyone who spoke Hebrew before 1700 or so.

YOU ARE RIGHT. It was miraculous that the Jewish people retained their race, cultural identity, Hebrew language, holy scriptures, etc. through 2,500 years of diaspora.

No, no. That isn't very impressive, as I can show you languages & customs that have survived for far, far longer. I was talking about Auschwitz. Treblinka. Sobibor. Belzec. Chelmno. You want to claim prophecy and deliverance of the Jews? Then explain those.

Explain to Primo Levi how there can be both an Auschwitz and a God.

Benjamin Disraeli was asked for good proof of the truth of the Bible. He said, "Look at the Jewish people". All was prophesied including a secular, Jewish Israel would arise before a Messianic Israel (Ezekiel's dry bones prophecy).

You're reaching just a bit, don't you think?

 

[Brickjectivity]

Did this thread get moved to the Christianity DIR or what it always in the DIR? Seems like it was in Biblical debates DIR, but I don't remember.

 

[Nietzsche]

Did this thread get moved to the Christianity DIR or what it always in the DIR? Seems like it was in Biblical debates DIR, but I don't remember.

..holy **** it is, isn't it? I even checked this time to make sure! Goddamnit!

 

[Brickjectivity]

..holy **** it is, isn't it? I even checked this time to make sure! Goddamnit!

Maybe it got baptized?

 

[Thanda]

There is one incident that comes to mind which might imply a flat Earth. When Satan carried Jesus up on top of a mountain, it was said that they were able to see all the kingdoms on Earth. I don't see how that would work on a spherical Earth, but it could on a flat Earth. That is, if we take "all" the kingdoms as literal.

It was a vision

 

[Bunyip]

I call baloney. I also call a discrete refusal to honor time-tested work of linguists and academics. YOUR deliberate misunderstanding is absolutely anti-academic (if unintentionally so).

Sorry, the context of the message given there by Jesus was a BUNCH of things that had to happen BEFORE His return, including the destruction of the second temple, the return from diaspora, Armageddon, and the construction and installation of worship at a third temple. No. You are wrong both in context and in language assessment.

LOL Mate Jesus STATES that he will return whilst some of those there still live - you are the one doing the spinning buddy.

 

[BilliardsBall]

And? Perhaps you're unaware, but the Hebrew that Israel speaks today is very much a Creole Language. It contains significant portions of Arabic, Yiddish(a Germanic-Hebrew fusion language) and other elements that would render it utterly unintelligible to anyone who spoke Hebrew before 1700 or so.


No, no. That isn't very impressive, as I can show you languages & customs that have survived for far, far longer. I was talking about Auschwitz. Treblinka. Sobibor. Belzec. Chelmno. You want to claim prophecy and deliverance of the Jews? Then explain those.

Explain to Primo Levi how there can be both an Auschwitz and a God.


You're reaching just a bit, don't you think?

Bad examples. I was citing the survival of the Jewish state and Jewish identity. Jewish suffering is prophesied in Deuteronomy, resultant from rejection of the Jewish Messiah.

And I'm talking about the Hebrew scriptures and their preservation more so than the Hebrew spoken language.

 

[BilliardsBall]

LOL Mate Jesus STATES that he will return whilst some of those there still live - you are the one doing the spinning buddy.

That is untrue. The quote you are thinking of has to do with people seeing God's Kingdom while they live, not His Return. Paul, Peter and Jesus are just three of the NT persons who prophesied global political, information and social changes before the Return. Peter said don't think Jesus is slow to Return and that a day is like 1,000 years to God.

The breaking of the NT via an imminent, unfulfilled Return is the stuff of secular university professors and higher critics. Also, it is a canard that is unsupported by the text but rather, the complete opposite.

 

[Bunyip]

That is untrue. The quote you are thinking of has to do with people seeing God's Kingdom while they live, not His Return. Paul, Peter and Jesus are just three of the NT persons who prophesied global political, information and social changes before the Return. Peter said don't think Jesus is slow to Return and that a day is like 1,000 years to God.

The breaking of the NT via an imminent, unfulfilled Return is the stuff of secular university professors and higher critics. Also, it is a canard that is unsupported by the text but rather, the complete opposite.

You need to read your bible before you try to talk about it any further mate.
Mathew 16:28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom"

See - no mention of generation. Just directly telling them he will return before they die.

You shouldn't need an atheist to teach bible studies to you.

 

[BilliardsBall]

You need to read your bible before you try to talk about it any further mate.
Mathew 16:28 "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom"

See - no mention of generation. Just directly telling them he will return before they die.

You shouldn't need an atheist to teach bible studies to you.

Nor should you need me to teach English to you. In the English language, Jesus is not saying this is the Return of Judgment Day. In the English Bible, this quotation is found in all three synoptics. In all three synoptics, the IMMEDIATE passage following is Jesus appearing before three of His disciples as they meet MOSES and ELIJAH and hear from Father God direct. I've heard this "contradiction" for many years, and it's still as wrong as it ever was.

 

[ArtieE]

From the verses i dont read that bible says earth is flat.

The Flat-Earth Bible.