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First Q 2016 - wild times

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
The S&P 500 ended up down EOY over 2014, the Obama Malaise has been a huge wart now on the economy and no doubt he will do some more nutjob and Venezuela style executive "actions" and NSA snooping on Congress and IRS political persecution and such bureaucratic stink bombs that will cause problems for the domestic and world economy where literally slavery is now alive and well thanks to Hillary, Obama, McCain and Paul Ryan and Pelosi and the others, and the under class will continue to grow and suffer under their Brasilian "leadership".

But there is a big picture that can help formulate a "strategy" into the first Quarter of 2016. Hopefully Trump will win the election at the end of 2016 and the economy, exports, GDP and real jobs will take off. Until then... this is going to be a crazy-ride into 2016.

For what it is worth, my gut is:

Tough currency headwind in the international market continues to pose challenges affecting US sales of the promising medical devices, good consumer discretionary sector, and of course the risky energy sector. For example, the expansion of US based medical devices into India which is promising, or exports of US oil products abroad, are impacted negatively by a strong dollar, but also impacted by confusion and difficult compliance when all international currencies are rapidly fluctuating making pricing quotation difficult and import/export laws and international licensing of products or services difficult to commit to a fixed set of time such as "one year license".

Yet, of the two, the consumer discretionary, and the sale of new medical devices has great promise in 2016 but future development is tampered by government provided healthcare domestically in the US that is always seeking "stability" over "change" to control costs and negates an incentive for research, and in the energy oil sectors there continues the most negative currents to swim against. One factor is the rise in interest rates, some sectors such as fraking or shale borrow money as part of ongoing business and this will become more expensive and unless the price per barrel rises the minimum payments of borrowing already in the planning becomes tenuous to meet, small operations may shutdown, support infrastructure even for large operations may change business focus or even fail.

The upside, we are seeing the collapse of the Left all over the world and in Central and South America - also the beginning of the end of leftism in Europe with disgraceful creatures such as Merkel (Time Mag Front cover gal, no one reads Time but we have to look at the face of that cretin Merkel every time we shop for dirty lettuce with e-coli from human crap and who is invading her own country with armies from abroad and who go about saying "I can't believe the people vote for (Trump, New Right in Europe, et all) which really means "I can't believe people are allowed to vote"))...

You need to monitor the dollar via UUP and UDN not to buy them but just watch the strength of the dollar, as well as foreign currency fluctuations - a lot of work, but you can do it.

The strong dollar and weak major global economies will hit the trade sector hard, lowering US exports. With the Fed tightening and the European Central Bank easing central banking policy, this will strengthen the dollar more and pressure companies doing business abroad in a negative way.

The number one driver for down swings in the market will continue to be energy - all sectors and not just oil are impacted by any one negative downturn, utilities can suffer, and downturns in materials and industrials as well as alternative energy. Yet, another factor - war in the ME and anywhere in the world actually, can impact the bloated supply of cheap oil and the benefactor would be Russia. The price per share of some oil companies could spike upward for those which have reserves and upstream.

Watch out, the pay-TV companies will hike prices in 2016 amid the rise of "cord-cutting" transformation that involves disconnecting cable TV service and substituting it with Internet video. Cable TV providers Rising programming costs, especially those for live sports, are effecting the bottom line and they will pass these costs onto consumers. Due to rising costs for the consumers who will be facing turmoil due to rising interest rates, many cunsumers of cable will become angry. Those who use sports entertainment may turn more to online sports, and gaming systems. Viewers will cut back on packages.

However the Cable segments that provide video services themselves as feeds to Cable cumpanies, or the enablement of the infrastructure of video services into cable providers, will benefit with likely sharp rises in growth and profit.

Gamblers may find cheap buys in energy stocks and gold mining companies any of which could spike due to world turmoil but are cheap due to strong dollar or over supply. So-called "penny stocks", e.g. under $5 dollars per share, look interesting to gamblers if they seem to be a troubled business but one that could survive the storm and then pay great dividend on the upswing. It may be wise to have some investment in these with money you are willing to lose but could provide huge gains later - or even suddenly during world turmoil. But war itself is not cheap, and will hurt in a big way other sectors, actually it is a myth that "Wall Street" wants war, no way. Better if we just carpet bomb the wiggly centipedes now than later. But probably won't happen unless Russia does it, and Iran is about to flood the market with their oil thanks to Obama, and the Saudis cannot cut back and who blames them? They are in a bind as far as cash - so they have no choice but to continue production to get cash to their people even though a cut back would pump the price up.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
The short story....
I see risk factors for an economic downturn.....
- Increased highly leveraged borrowing
- Rising interest rates....which at least can be lowered by gov fiat if things head south
- The continual risk of a major terrorist attack sending business into contractions (as happened in 2001)

I'm hoping for calm because I have all my eggs riding in one basket.
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So, in the event of part two of the crash of '08, where should we park our investments?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
So, in the event of part two of the crash of '08, where should we park our investments?
If/when I get spare cash, I'm paying off loans.
Why?
The interest I pay floats with prevailing rates, & is typically more than the return I could get with anything liquid & low risk.
When a loan is paid off, that's one less loan I must requalify for every 3 years.

Things which did well in the crash.....
- Self storage facilities
- Apartment complexes
- Fort Howard (They make toilet paper)
 
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ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Let's talk gambling money you are willing to risk. I mean you can always "pull out" BEFORE it goes zero, just need to watch it daily, or 3 times a day, watch out for "repetitive motion" syndrome on your snartphone or laptop, however, as you keep checking ... hourly.

Let us give an example scenario. Given where oil and gas prices are right now, let us say "XYZ Energy" debt is at unsustainable levels. Analysts wonder out loud not if, but when, the "XYZ Energy" company will default on its debt.

That's due to a growing concern that the company won't be able to roll over its near-term debt maturities when they comes due during the next few years. These worries have pushed the company's stock down to levels that would imply that it's not going to make it.

XYZ let us say is $1 per share right now...

However, while the risk is very real and end up going bankrupt, that's not a forgone conclusion in 2016, if - for example - the company has no debt maturities until 2017, which gives it some more time to address those maturities.

Let us say the "XYZ Energy" company was $2 per share in October of 2015 when they were getting $50 per barrel. Now, that is not $60 per barrel or higher, BUT ... at that price they were $2 per share.

Some say, as more go under, in fact output could decline, and the "witches brew" could get investors to buy into oil on "a hope", then it may not be so crazy, oil could be $50 per barrel in late 2016.

But the "XYZ Energy" company isn't facing debt maturities until 2017!

So, if pretend oil DID go to $50, not impossible, we are now at $37, a far cry from $100 but $50 is possible, then we can "assume" that XYZ will STILL be ALIVE and if their price per share was $2 per share in October of 2015 at $50 per barrel - and you bought now at $1 per share right now, right today ... and XYZ is NOT going to go bankrupt because has no debt maturities until 2017, not 2016, and then oil goes to $50 per barrel, then probably XYZ will go to the price per share it was back in October of 2015 when oil was $50 per barrel, and that is $2 per share ....

Not great... but you just DOUBLED your money!

Now let us say, oil does go from $37 to $50 dollars per barrel - certainly only half $100 per barrel it was, but! The investors get over excited, "Market REBOUNDS on Monday on Oil" headlines and stuff, and they jump in buying XYZ at $1.52 per share, this excitement then pushes it OVER $2 per share, now it is $2.22 per share and you even cover capital gains!

HOT DOGGIE!
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
psssss I am buying banks, because Yeller the toad from toad hallow is MORE aggressive on interest hikes than people imagine. This is going to cause havoc, especially on the middle class, to help her banker friends. Obama will pretend he is against it, but he is FOR it and "timing" it to try and then sink the econom more (there will be a 14 month delay of negative impact on each interest rate rise but after the third one NO DELAY at all - timing it so then the "bomb" is already in the works and blows up and then the Dems blame the Reps even though it is not their fault.

Actually, Yellen doesn't want to as much as some think, she is being pressurized with threats from Obama, the NSA and IRS political wings, to do it, that is why she almost had a heart attack during a meeting a couple months ago, et all.

But CDs and stuff will make sense with rising interest, banks benefit, but no one can afford a credit card, mortgage, car loan et all, nor charge a buy on a new iphone, it is going to suck, and "lump sum" options on annuities will TANK and it will suck... but...
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
The sell off continues over the next weeks, the "mild buy backs" won't be impressive even though the establishment of the DNC and RNC had their various underlings tout today as a "buyers market", the DOW will probably be down a bit more by EOD, this after the DOW down over 275 points yesterday on China economic decline, concerns over Obama-Iranian alliance that threatens world stability, further declines in oil.

These issues such as China are true - remember, the anti-establishment has been saying for sometime now that China was not the "great economy" it was made out to be and it's problems were being hidden by it's government while the establishment was all gung-ho on buying "emerging markets" and had their underlings on every cable channel scoffing off the anti-establishment.

These problems, so apparent and showing how correct the anti-establishment was, aren't the only ones, however.

Meanwhile, Brasil is heading for it's worst recession in history since 1909 under it's leftist Obamanist President Dilma Rousseff’s Workers’ Party:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ng-in-new-year-with-deeper-recession-forecast

And looking at Brasil alone, starting in 2011, more than 20 Islamic extremist operations connected to al-Qaeda at that time, and now it is ISIS and Pakistani terrorist groups, are using Brazil as a base to hide, raise money or plan attacks, according to leaked documents. This number has grown well over 20 since 2011, and under the Brasilian worst recession since 1909 in 2016, terrorists will further advantage the chaos and setup active terrorists cells while the average person in Brasil is unaware because their media is as phony, establishment and "liberal" controlled and phony as the old legacy media in the U.S., but their grip is becoming tenuous.

Brasil is a microcosm of the low information voter, and the disinformation and no-information agenda of the establishment, but they are losing their grip as they lose the entire world economy.

It is not if the next Islamic terrorist attack will occur in Europe, it is when it will. The millions of "refugees" - which is a crisis that is clearly a result in no small part of Obama, Hillary Clinton, John Kerry who caused it - isn't going to end after foolish "leaders" such as Merkel allow millions of anti-democracy villagers and un-assimilative sharia-law-loving enemies of democracy who will never change their enclaving mentality for 3 generations horde into and destroy the future of Europe which Europe cannot afford to "feed the pooping loud pigeons" and cobble the offspring of Europeans and turn those lands into war zones. It won't be "solved" as if letting them in is a "one time deal" - no way is it a one off, the "refugees" spigot will not end, they will continue and continue and continue to no end unless and until the Islamic extremists are totally crushed, and besides, the "refugees" aren't "refugees" fleeing extremism either, they are just another face of the multi-facet struggles between factions of extremism that happens to be losing right now.

These aren't Jews or Irish. And anyone who says Europe can afford them economically is a liar, and this will rip Europe apart and destroy it's economy already in trouble as sure as the next terrorist attack, and anyone who says the terrorist attacks have no effect on the economy is also a liar and these will further erode Europe's - and the U.S. - economy as sure as they will impact the elections.

The terrrorists WILL have active cells in the US and already do under Obama, Kerry, and Hillary WILL be seen as part of the problem and their failures and weakness WILL be seen as the terrorists greatest recruiting tool and not Trump and the next big terrorist attack WILL effect the economy.

There is a symbiotic relationship between the economy and terrorism even if not overwhelming - and both the "it's the economy, stupid" AND "terrorism" WILL impact the elections, will further expose the establishment as losing it's grip on power and will benefit the anti-establishment. Those who think Hillary will not get the blame for her part, however not-so-small "small", for a lot of this in the upcoming US election, are wrong. They are deluding themselves, she will, and it will happen in the general election and the establishment cannot control the message anymore, anymore than they can deliver a good ecunomy or stop terrorism or anything else they cannot do and the anti-establishment is posed for victory no matter how much the establishment lies about the unemployed just as China's lies. The same establishment that said Trump is a "one week, two week ae most, side-show" at the start of this who now say "Hillary's best chance at winning is Trump" are wrong. So wrong, and becoming clearly "dead wrong".

Europe's further disintegrationn will hurt the economy. China's ever more exposed vunerable economy on the prop of the lies of a central government will hurt the economy. The layoffs coming, and have already begun, in the energy sectors alone will expose the lies of the US central government as well, and big layoffs are not going to just be in the energy sector. And the underclass already suffering, the middle class, will suffer more, and by the way the "rich" WON'T "get richer", they will get get poorer as they are running out of places to run to because this isn't going to be fun. Sure, some will know how to "make a buck" anyway - I am one of them.

The Sunni-Shia war WILL hurt the global economy. A surprise injection of cash from China's Central Bank will NOT turn it around. A bear market for the US WILL be the bear of 2016 and WILL help Trump. Hillary WILL be blamed as well as Obama. The blue collars WILL vote for Trump as the hope for the economy, the lame-stream media WILL fail and are delusional and no lies about unemployment numbers can save the economy until the establishment is thrown out and there WILL be another horrible terrorist attack that WILL both impact the economy and the elections, and Obama WILL make things worse and IS a fool of Iran and this WILL hurt the economy and WILL impact Hillary and Bill Clinton WILL be called a predator of women and a rapist and Hillary WILL be seen as an enabler and the economy WILL muddle along in a sickly way and Hillary WILL be seen as sickly and if and when the Fed raises interest rates two more times this WILL hurt all sorts of non-banking sectors and WILL hurt the economy and the global economy WILL weaken and crime WILL increase and gun sales WILL increase and Obama and Hillary WILL be seen as gun grabbers, cop haters and the "real reason" for gangs, cop killers, looters, home invaders and crime and the REASON you need a gun, and coomodities WILL fall, and even gold will go down interspersed with "panic spikes" as the "black swam" glides by, and mortages WILL become out of reach as interests rise, and FEWER will be able to afford electric cars, and there WILL be blackouts in major cities but buying an apartment in NYC WILL cost more as real estate outside any "business survival zone" WILL go into doldrums of despair and materials and exporter manufacturers WILL fail more and more, and Hillary WILL lose the election, and the economy in 2016 IS in big trouble and oil MAY come back if WW3 starts which WON'T save the economy but MAY happen more so in 2016 than since 1939.

But "hope alone" of a Trump victory may turn things around in November. But let us hope. The next six months are not going to be forgotten in November.
 
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ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Anybody still think the economy isn't going to be the issue along with terrorism in 2016?

Two days after Obama says in the SOTU, "Anyone claiming that America's economy is in decline is peddling fiction." - and I am looking at ANOTHER huge drop, right now the DOW is down over 400 points and heading to down 500, the economy is literally suffering from economic diabetes, Obama was saying "United States of America has the strongest economy in the world" as if just because some country is still the "number 1" economy in the world means "strong" - what crap, China was probably number 2 but when EVERYONE is collapsing including China then just because you were number 1 and still number 1 because number 2 sucks, and you suck also, but "still on top" means nothing. It is like saying you got some guy holding a 20 dollar coin, and his friend is holding a 10 dollar coin, and life is good for both but one guy is "number 1" and the other guy "number 2" and then suddenly the coins are only worth 1-Fifth their value. Well "number 1" is STILL number 1, that doesn't mean life is good for the first guy, doesn't mean the first guy is "strong"... it sucks.

Obama also downplayed Islamic terrorism in the same SOTU address, and this crap about "Over-the-top claims that this is World War". This is not very far from World War now, buddy, and in fact this suck *** economy only increases the odds of World War.

So now we are hearing the rumors that more women are soon going to come out and say Bill Clinton raped them, and that Hillary sic'd goondas on these women to threaten them to shutup. We are prubably looking at a Bill Cosby (cross out the word Cosby) Clinton moment and bumper stickers with Cosby crossed out and Clinton next to it are now being printed and ready. Hillary is in big trouble.

Because of the movie. 13 Hours.

An old, obese, unattractive grandmother is not going to tell men in the military what to do and after Bengazi, and this movie 13 hours has finished her. She blamed it on an innocent man with the video lie and then had him incarcerated. She allowed his liberty to be taken away to cover up for her own failures, she is a danger to us all. She told the families who had their loved one murdered that it was the video - all these family members were tuld this, none of them ever spoke with each other about it yet all say the same thing, then Hillary tells everyone in America just recently that she never told the families it was a video, now we have family members in tears and screaming on television that Hillary is a liar with tears streaming down their eyes and literally SCREAMING she is a liar, liar, liar and there is no way, zero, she is going to survive this. I cannot imagine Bernie is going to lose to Hillary at this juncture after this movie, it doesn't matter if it was only a movie. Seriously, this is serious bad news for her and the deal is when folks start screaming "she is a big fat liar!" this classic saying has even a more biting effect because besides being a liar, she IS also fat. All these things can be "brushed" off, but I am telling you even the fatso thing has her marked for the old folks home or even jail.

Then Ted Cruz blows it in the debate last night with the "New York Values" thing which he was warned ahead of time "don't go there" - then he did anyway. Now the headlines this morning are "Drop Dead, Ted" and "Hey, Cruz, don't like NY Values? Go back to Canada!". I mean, he just handed New York and probably several Northern states to the Trump nomination, and don't be surprised if Trump is on top in the next poll in Iowa.

This nomination will not be like those in the past - if Trump wins the first two states, this thing is over. He has it. And a Trump victory is the last hope for the economy. This election is going to be brutal. BEE-ROOOO-TALL! It is going to be physically draining, Obama could throw hoops, Bernie may be an old man but he is in shape for an old guy, Trump may be getting only 4 hours sleep a day on an insane schedule and he is right there in the streets risking his life, even renting an entire theatre and personally handing out free tickets to 13 Hours, he may be putting on more face paste but this guy is fit, strong, and brave if even crazy brave being so open in the public - but Hillary?

This isn't the 1990s, that was 20 years ago. She is an out of shape old grandma who could barely rolly-polly into that chair at the hearings and no she did NOT do "great" and this is going to be brutal and her health sucks and that is a fact, and the bronx jeers are coming, and I am telling you she better be ready but she might have a heart attack before this thing is over because it is going to be BREW-TUUUULLL.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Chinese Citizens exchanging Yuan into Dollar: 1.00 USD = 6.55167 CNY

Chinese citizens are exchanging yuan for dollar, or even valuables for dollar, both on the red or black market. This includes illegal exchanges. Large sums of money involved, as well as small sums by peasant families. This is happening wide scale, unsanctioned and sanctioned. This does not bode well for China's economy.

Monday, the markets are closed for MLK Day, but open Tuesday. But the markets in the Middle East are open. And London "Footsy" (FTSE) is crashing. And it looks like oil is going to have another BAD day thanks to Obama lifting sanctions on Iran which will flood more crude oil into the global market. And Mexico is now bringing up fracking output, this will all likely further pull the markets down, the DOW will likely take another hit.

Read this:

"Prospect of the Islamic Republic pumping an additional 500,000 barrels a day sends stock markets in Dubai and Saudi Arabia into tailspin

Stock markets across the Middle East saw more than £27bn wiped off their value as the lifting of economic sanctions against Iran threatened to unleash a fresh wave of oil onto global markets that are already drowning in excess supply.

All seven stock markets in the Gulf states tumbled as panic gripped traders. London shares are now braced for a second wave of crisis to hit when they open on Monday morning after contagion from China sent the FTSE 100 to its worst start in history last week."
 
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ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Gross domestic product, the value of everything a nation produces, hit a new low at a 0.7% annual rate from October to December. That’s a big markdown from the already bleak number of 2% growth in the fall.

In fact it is horrible.

The DOW is looking at a 20% drop this year, it may be a lot worse. The fact of the matter is, as oil price drops, so does the US and world economy. It is certainly not the only factor, but if you check the spot price of the commodity along with the Asia markets at about 2am Pacific time, you can pretty much predict if the DOW will be up or down for the day.

Take today.The Shanghai up 82 and the Hang Seng 487, the price per barrel up to $34 dollars per, and thus right now the DOW is up 281 points as of 11am Pacific. So you can predict, although it is not an exact science and you need to also look at the value of the dollar and interest rate hikes, the market for any given day and react accordingly before it happens.


Overall, the GDP is a major predictor - and the nightmare will continue as things look so far.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
WOW! Thank you, Japan!

U.S. stocks rose more than 1 percent Friday, the last trading day of January, after the Bank of Japan unexpectedly adopted a negative interest rate policy for the first time.

Please Japan, call Janet Yellen right now and tell her not to raise interest rates! Dow up 300+ points on Japan news.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
God no. But hopefully Japan can send a message to Yellen.Because if she does what she is implying she will do, what is going to be bad is going to be really bad.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Gold jumped $33 dollars an ounce when I looked this morning - this is the normal so-called panic buying of gold you see when a serious drop in the markets is about to hit.

WTI Texas oil was duwn to $27 dollars when I checked this morning. To top that off, the Asian Markets had a bad night (their day, our night) last night, in particular the Hang Seng and India as well.

In other words, I predict yet another horror today on the DOW. But at least I am holding gold funds which I picked up a bit back.

Have a great day, but it isn't going to be one even if you don't even have one penny in the markets, you are going to suffer. Of course, if you never even bothered to save in investments you are going to be worse off than those who did but are facing the bears in losses. They still have something when the layoffs come and they will survive this in the end. It is one more bad day. You should have been rebalancing your portfolio starting back before Chistmas, and build up your skill sets to do so with daily analysis. Yes, every day now. It should be your "other" full time job. The markets open in 2 minutes. Everyone on the business channels will be screaming (well, politely screaming).

I bought $10,000 of Corn and Wheat ETFs last week, not much but a bucket positioned to move other funds to as this thing shakes out. Straight up corn and wheat. Cross fingers.

Happy Trails to You, my Capitalists. Bravehearts.


UPDATE 608am, forgot to say, from the other day, China is doing massive buys of gold.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
Investing in Gold makes the economy suffer worth that you claim to care so much about.


Investing changes targets year to year, month to month, and increasingly day to day. Today I made money on the gold funds I purchased pre-Christmas in anticipation of the start of the year. Tomorrow I will likely sell more than half these funds to put in a money market to then take out and invest in other stocks, bonds, etfs, etns, reits, and on and on. I am helping the economy by saving the value of my portfolio to then go on and reinvest in other productive ventures. This isn't complicated, myself and others are the one's who all in each their own way turn things around, make things grow, and save for the future.

Last week I bought ETFs in corn and wheat. Good place to hold cash as other ventures dive, such as certain tech stocks or oil. I know the concepts of inflation, currency valuation, interest rates, commoditites, bonds, stocks, mutual funds, etfs, etns, gold, silver, treasury yields, world markets, are complicated - it can be. But that will not make you a great investor. It isn't just the market you analyze like looking at some ticker tape of numbers going up and down. You need to follow all current and world events, politics, turmoil, science, diseases, weather, birth rates, elections, innovation, cultures, religions, it is all part of the vision to be able to make the correct analysis - or even how to in part impact the outcome.

Today I made money when the market dropped 250+ points. Tomorrow that money will invest in another. I have it to do so, watch what I do next if you like. But some better watch the earth under their feet. There are ways to get through some things and around bad things.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Socialism may very well be wrong, but I also think that investing wrongly can hurt the economy. Donald Trump once said that if he lost all his money he would go into multi-level marketing.

I think it's a given that, investment in Gold as a hedge against a bad economy actually takes money out of the economy into that gold and hence, hurts it. The gold isn't really becoming more valuable in terms of science on that gold. If you sell gold and invest it in the economy, like you are now starting to do, you help things. Again I think that's just given.

You are using that gold as a currency that can't change value as the money loses value, so the more you put into gold the more the currency loses value. Your investment and then divestiture of gold did not help anything.

Thank you for being calm and you really do seem like you are always trying to help. I have a Master's Degree in Math and did a Master's Project on the stock market and passed the first actuarial exam, and I can say I know about most of these concepts you are saying you know, and I know the concepts from the second actuary exam, but I... I don't know what I'm saying.

I will be glad to listen to you!
 
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robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Dear ShivaFan,

I'm pretty good at math, but when it comes to applying it sometimes I can be absolutely retarded. Correct me if I'm wrong. The gold itself can't do anything new, if you sell it when it's more expensive, that man had to pay more. If you make a profit off gold, the rest of the world loses money, and you didn't contribute to anything. If you make a profit off of a company, at least they used your loan to enhance the world.

Plus, it clearly stated on Nightly Business Report that gold investment hurts bonds and stocks. Those are more important.

Also, Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders have the most expensive budgets in 10 years.
 

ShivaFan

Satyameva Jayate
Premium Member
I am not talking about physical gold - these are funds/stocks/etfs where the portfolio is for example a gold mining company, or a collective of various gold interests, but not physical gold.

I am not sure if I mentioned it, but while I hate to mention any particular fund or stock, because it will seem that I am endorsing it (and the thing about that is, the aspects of any given stock or fund can change from year to year, month to month, and these times it is day to day, thus this is never something that is without risk and requires some effort to understand the dynamics), let me give just one example.

In South Africa there is a mining company, Harmony Gold. It is South African register and employs many locals. It is unionized. But they lost over 3,000 jobs due to the slump in gold prices in May of 2015, and many suffered. This was in part due to the economic decline globally. The strong US dollar didn't make things better, a strong dollar means it takes less dollars to buy one ounce of gold, this contributed to the gold price decline. Commodities at all levels suffered as the demand went down.

However, in January of this year, things started getting so bad, so much money was being lost by many in the markets, even though gold will trend down in the bearish market initially and especially if under the threat of interest rate increases (and Yellen increased the FFR by .25 percent), there comes a point (sometimes a panic) when simply to save from losses so that funds can be salvaged and used to buy later on hopes of an upswing or to purchase those stocks and funds which are foreseen to recover later simply due to the basics of global trade and the global dependencies, but they do not want to go into cash which can become losses simply due to inflation, so they look for a "bucket" to throw the money in.

There are many different types of "buckets" to "hold money" but where these "buckets" are still within the portfolio of the markets.

Probably one of the most classic of these is gold. As the panic sets in, you will likely see money move to gold. As to why humans have so valued it for eons, in one way that is sort of a mystery if you really think about it. It may be rare, but alot of things are rare. Actually, gold is not that rare. It is considered the heaviest metal, it will trend to the lowest point over time, but also it is one of the softest metals, it will go deep into the crevice in the DOWNSIDE of a bolder of the current and then spread out due to it's soft nature. It is known as God's Pedigree (e.g. gold/silver, then there is Royal Pedigree tea/rice, etc.) for that is how long it has been.

So before the hits of January of 2016, many foresaw this, at that time prior to January I decided to move value into gold, there were different stocks and funds I chose, one was Harmony Gold which I purchased at .62 cents per share starting in early December, then more at about .72 cents, and I purchased THOUSANDS of such shares.

Suddenly in early January it jumped to about $1.20 per share, double the price, and as predicted as the panic set it, more and more turned to gold to "bucket" the money, it went to over $2.50 per share. It is now $2.63 as of today. I quadrupled my money.

I am now preparing to buy more gold ETFs which have not yet been noticed by other investors but probably soon will, there is still a good price before it increases. But this will not go on forever. Yet, I have saved losses others suffered. That "money" I will be able to use to purchase other stocks, and I have been. For example as mentioned I have recently purchase a large number of wheat and corn ETFs. That by the way is another one of those "buckets". I have made money on those as well, certainly saved myself major losses. Oil has been dropping, as everyone knows, but there have been an occasion when a stock or fund "bumps up a bit" before another drop - which each of these I can predict it is about to happen, at which point I moved some existing funds in oil over to other funds but only on the upside.

I will not get out of oil entirely. Because at any moment, due to the turmoil of potential war, these funds may again spike.

But back to Harmony Gold. They offer stocks which provides a "share in the company" - I am in that sense a "partial owner" and have bought a stake into the company and it's future. Those funds are used to pay the operations in addition to profits used. When myself, and so many others, bought those shares, this literally saved the jobs of so many in that area of South Africa.

Nothing remains the same. One thing gives and takes against another, but oddly in the end, they all balance out. We are all simply doing busywork that in one way, is illogical. Perhaps it is nature Herself who is driving us this way. Nature gives and takes, but then sort of all balances out in the end. But the balance is but the moment, where the "center of gravity" is, it moves from here to there. Eventually it comes around to you. But when it is right over your head, and you are only looking down at the ants to eat, you may not notice the mango above your head until the gravity drops the mango right on top of your head. Lucky for you. There is a day when, believe it or not, that center of gravity moves, and the mango goes sideways instead of down.
 
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robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I browsed this and it looks like you know what you are talking about, so I will read it later. Like I said I am good at math but sometimes retarded in applied math. I was thinking of something like "gold futures," and am not sure if they exist. I will look this up.
 
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