Fire in Heaven

[Mercurio]

Personally, I think heaven and hell are states of mind and the difference is service to all as self vs service solely to self and disparity towards other selves.

Jesus said, "He who wishes to be greatest, must be servant to all."


As you noted, the richman consistently thought of "himself", "his" family, "his" vs others. The division between him and abraham and lazarus was created by himself in making the difference.

The lake of fire is a purifying scenario; which removes the attachments of the earthly experience. Can be related to the same situation expressed in Zechariah 13:9

And I will put this third into the fire, and refine them as one refines silver, and test them as gold is tested. They will call upon my name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are my people’; and they will say, ‘The LORD is my God.’

and again

malachi 3:3

And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the Lord an offering in righteousness.

and again

isaiah 48:10

Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

and again

deut 4:20

But the Lord hath taken you, and brought you forth out of the iron furnace, even out of Egypt, to be unto him a people of inheritance, as you are this day.

We seem to be in agreement. Fire should be seen as purifying.

Let me discuss now the other part of your opening post about God being an all consuming fire.

Nothing impure can exist in the immediate and full Presence of God. Any impure thing would vanish. Poof, up in smoke.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity. . . .

God Himself does not see anything impure, not directly. His angels see and intervene. This explains the need for mediators. I think it explains the need for a Messiah. God protects us by keeping us "at a distance" so to speak. If a sinner were to be in His Presence, he could go out of existence. So it is out of Mercy that God has this distance. If we purify ourselves as we can, we are using the Flames of Mercy to do it. We are trying to get closer to God, and He responds by coming closer to us.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

I believe on Judgment Day, any remaining impurities we have will be burned away. It's like rotten wood being burned; but after the final judgment, we won't be able to grow "new wood." Thus Paul talks about someone being saved himself but still losing some things.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Life is precious then. We are given the opportunity to "lay up treasures in Heaven" as Jesus said by purifying ourselves now when we see a vice that can be replaced by a virtue. By giving it up to the Sacred Fires now, we still have a chance to gain a virtue that won't be burnt up on the day of testing we pass through the flames. We are told to "buy gold tried in the fire" now.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Those who say Jesus is going to do it all for them may be disappointed later.

 

[Fool]

We seem to be in agreement. Fire should be seen as purifying.

Let me discuss now the other part of your opening post about God being an all consuming fire.

Nothing impure can exist in the immediate and full Presence of God. Any impure thing would vanish. Poof, up in smoke.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity. . . .

God Himself does not see anything impure, not directly. His angels see and intervene. This explains the need for mediators. I think it explains the need for a Messiah. God protects us by keeping us "at a distance" so to speak. If a sinner were to be in His Presence, he could go out of existence. So it is out of Mercy that God has this distance. If we purify ourselves as we can, we are using the Flames of Mercy to do it. We are trying to get closer to God, and He responds by coming closer to us.

James 4:8 Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

I believe on Judgment Day, any remaining impurities we have will be burned away. It's like rotten wood being burned; but after the final judgment, we won't be able to grow "new wood." Thus Paul talks about someone being saved himself but still losing some things.

1 Corinthians 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Life is precious then. We are given the opportunity to "lay up treasures in Heaven" as Jesus said by purifying ourselves now when we see a vice that can be replaced by a virtue. By giving it up to the Sacred Fires now, we still have a chance to gain a virtue that won't be burnt up on the day of testing we pass through the flames. We are told to "buy gold tried in the fire" now.

Revelation 3:18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Those who say Jesus is going to do it all for them may be disappointed later.

Thank you!!!

 

[URAVIP2ME]

heaven is a place on earth too, just as paradise is a place in heaven. case in point, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. earth resides within heaven and cannot be separate from it, anymore than we can be separate from god.

I think praying ' thy kingdom come ' means God's kingdom of a thousand years is Not here yet. - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
We do Not pray ' thy heaven come ' but that God's will (purpose) be done here on Earth as God's will is done in heaven.
We do Not pray ' take me away to the kingdom ' nor pray ' take me up to the kingdom ' but for the kingdom to come.
God's will or purpose for heaven is: good conditions:
There is No pollution in heaven, No war, No crime, No violence, No sickness and No death in heaven, so by praying God's will be done here as it is in heaven is praying those same good heavenly conditions to exist right here on Earth.

In order for earth to reside within heaven, then God would reside on earth. According to 1 kings 8:49 God's has a specific location Not on earth but in heaven. A heavenly realm independent of our material universe.
Only the individual himself can separate himself from God.
God gives us conditions to be met at Zephaniah 2:3 if we don't want to separate oneself from God.- Isaiah 26:20.

 

[Fool]

I think praying ' thy kingdom come ' means God's kingdom of a thousand years is Not here yet. - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26
We do Not pray ' thy heaven come ' but that God's will (purpose) be done here on Earth as God's will is done in heaven.
We do Not pray ' take me away to the kingdom ' nor pray ' take me up to the kingdom ' but for the kingdom to come.
God's will or purpose for heaven is: good conditions:
There is No pollution in heaven, No war, No crime, No violence, No sickness and No death in heaven, so by praying God's will be done here as it is in heaven is praying those same good heavenly conditions to exist right here on Earth.

In order for earth to reside within heaven, then God would reside on earth. According to 1 kings 8:49 God's has a specific location Not on earth but in heaven. A heavenly realm independent of our material universe.
Only the individual himself can separate himself from God.
God gives us conditions to be met at Zephaniah 2:3 if we don't want to separate oneself from God.- Isaiah 26:20.

People can't see God's Kingdom because they don't have an open mind and heart.


nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Mercurio: Regarding Matthew 27:51-53

First, I think, No one was resurrected before Jesus. No one was resurrected the day Jesus' died, including Jesus.
The ' bodies ' of verse 52 then are their 'corpses' being exposed by the earthquaking.
The living people who were at the cemetery were the ones who appeared before many after 'he' ( Jesus who was later resurrected ), so it was those living people appearing to many after God resurrected Jesus.
- Colossians 1:18 says Jesus is first born from the dead.
- 1 Corinthians 15:20-23 says Jesus was first fruits from the sleeping dead. The rest then would be later on.
Those called to govern with Jesus have a first or earlier resurrection from the majority of mankind - Revelation 20:6.
Later on for the majority is why the ' future tense ' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there 'is going to be ' a resurrection..... That future resurrection takes place during Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

People can't see God's Kingdom because they don't have an open mind and heart.
nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”

I would like to add : don't have a ' spiritual ' open mind and heart.
Jesus is un-seen head of the Christian congregation, and we do Not literally ' see ' Jesus but with the mind's eye we do.

Seems to me those hate-filled Pharisees of Luke 17:20-21 may have had minds and hearts soo wide open that their brains fell out. Jesus, as king-designate of God's kingdom government, was within their midst, right there among those Pharisees yet they refused to believe Jesus. After Jesus ends or concludes what he says to the Pharisees , then in verse 22 Jesus then addresses his disciples at Luke 17:22. So, to me, Jesus was Not saying God's government was inside of those hate-filled Pharisees, but 'to-be-king' Jesus was within their grasp, within their reach.

Jesus then gives his followers the kingdom illustration found at Luke 19:11-15.
Jesus is the nobleman who goes away to a 'far country' (heaven) before later returning in kingdom power or glory.
Returning at the coming glory time of separation as mentioned at Matthew 25:31-33,37.