Festival of Brexit

[Estro Felino]

Rubbish
The EU is a club; you pay a membership fee and for that fee you get benefits.
If you are NOT a member, you cannot expect anything like the same benefits.

It was not meant to be a club.
They turned it into a financial club.
I want it to be a spiritual union of European Nations.

 

[Altfish]

It was not meant to be a club.
They turned it into a financial club.
I want it to be a spiritual union of European Nations.

No, you are blinkered; it IS a club with benefits

 

[icehorse]

Any poll on 'sharia' is functionally worthless given the potential ways the term can be interpreted and the fact that in places where people can actually vote for Islamist parties, the number of people who say they are in favour of sharia is often vastly below the vote share for Islamist parties.

Opinion polls in general are very dubious, and 'sharia' ones are the most dubious I've ever seen, as are any asking people to evaluate their own morals, intelligence, integrity, etc.

What alternative would you suggest? I know you've knocked polls in the past, but even if we take them with a grain of salt, certainly they have some merit correct?

For example, let's say the *imperfect* poll says 40% of Muslims in the UK favor adding some aspects of Sharia into British law. We also know that marriages and divorces are frequently cited examples. So even if the polls are +/- 20%, we still have a significant percentage of the population advocating for some aspects of Sharia. Certainly that is more accurate than claiming that it's just a few radicals who want Sharia.

And further, even seemingly innocuous ideas like Sharia divorce courts are troubling for at least two important reasons:

1 - They are chipping away at secularism
2 - There is a good chance they are promoting misogyny.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, you are blinkered; it IS a club with benefits

If it is...Italexit is the only alternative for us.
But so many will follow us, after that.

 

[Altfish]

If it is...Italexit is the only alternative for us.
But so many will follow us, after that.

You've been saying that for years

 

[Augustus]

What alternative would you suggest?

No data is better than bad data.

But if you had to make a poll ask people specific, practical, non-leading questions:

How should thieves be punished?
How should inheritance be decided?

etc.

So even if the polls are +/- 20%,

They aren't even that accurate

 

[Estro Felino]

No data is better than bad data.

But if you had to make a poll ask people specific, practical, non-leading questions:

How should thieves be punished?
How should inheritance be decided?

etc.



They aren't even that accurate

The separation between religion a state is taken for granted by most Europeans, I guess.
But many still don't understand it because they are from cultural backgrounds where this separation has never existed.

 

[icehorse]

No data is better than bad data.

If - for example - we say 40%, +/-20%, that's not bad data, it's rough data. It still tells us that at least 20% are in play. Doctors often have stats that are no more accurate than that, and they do their best with them.

So let me ask you this, what would be a few specific reasons for Sharia marriages or divorces? The only reasons I can think of would be considered misogynistic in the west.

 

[Augustus]

If - for example - we say 40%, +/-20%, that's not bad data, it's rough data. It still tells us that at least 20% are in play.

The point is we don't know the +/- so it's just bad data.

You can't just pluck numbers out of thin air and consider them rigorous.

So let me ask you this, what would be a few specific reasons for Sharia marriages or divorces? The only reasons I can think of would be considered misogynistic in the west.

My point was about the data being worthless.

 

[icehorse]

The point is we don't know the +/- so it's just bad data.

You can't just pluck numbers out of thin air and consider them rigorous.

My point was about the data being worthless.

Okay. So we're supposed to accept that you @Augustus can declare all polls concerning islam to be worthless. Take that Pew research!

 

[Augustus]

Okay. So we're supposed to accept that you @Augustus can declare all polls concerning islam to be worthless. Take that Pew research!

No, you can be as credulous as you like.

I provided reasons why I think it is foolish to give such an obviously flawed poll any merit.

1. Even very simple polls are far less accurate than stated
2. Polls with highly subjective word choices are worthless
3. On moral issues people people frequently overstate how 'moral' they when compared to their actual behaviour (ditto intelligence, etc).
4. Where we have actual evidence, support for Sharia Political Parties in elections is far lower than polls for support of Sharia law.

You can check this all for yourself if you make the effort, but that's up to you.