Festival of Brexit

[Altfish]

 

[exchemist]

You've left out chlorinated chicken, the return of the Troubles and Scottish secession from the Union.

 

[exchemist]

I'm 6000 miles away (or so). From what I gather, a lot of the kerfuffle has to do with immigration policies?

In a very confused way, yes.

I've had taxi drivers moan about the EU and immigration - and then focus on the number of Pakistanis in the country.

And I've heard people blame EU membership for the prevalence of foreign food in our high streets, citing, er, curry houses and Kentucky Fried Chicken as examples.

And people in Lincolnshire have been moaning about floods of seasonal workers coming over to pick fruit and vegetables. Now that we are leaving the EU, they have stopped coming - and the crops are rotting in the fields, because British workers are unwilling to do such hard manual labour for so little pay.

We are also running short of care workers and nurses for the same reason. So the government is now, very quietly, relaxing the controls on immigration that will apply when we leave, so that we will be almost back where we started on immigration - minus all the benefits of EU membership.

You know it makes sense.

 

[Rival]

Bringing in non-native workers because the natives won't work for pittance? I think there's a name for that. Oh, exploitation.

The idea is only bring in skilled immigrants for things like hospital work if that's what we need, and give people in manual labour pay rises like they've been needing pretty much since manual labour has been a thing. Paying your workers a living wage in a country as rich as the UK shouldn't really be a problem.

 

[exchemist]

Bringing in non-native workers because the natives won't work for pittance? I think there's a name for that. Oh, exploitation.

The idea is only bring in skilled immigrants for things like hospital work if that's what we need, and give people in manual labour pay rises like they've been needing pretty much since manual labour has been a thing. Paying your workers a living wage in a country as rich as the UK shouldn't really be a problem.

Well these agricultural workers must get at least the minimum wage, by law. Whether higher wages will entice them we shall see. I suppose once the auto manufacturing business dies, due to Brexit, there may be more takers. But that will take a few years to work through.

Prices for fresh fruit and veg will go up in the supermarkets, but perhaps that is no bad thing - except that the diet of the poor will get worse.

 

[Rival]

Well these agricultural workers must get at least the minimum wage, by law. Whether higher wages will entice them we shall see. I suppose once the auto manufacturing business dies, due to Brexit, there may be more takers. But that will take a few years to work through.

Prices for fresh fruit and veg will go up in the supermarkets, but perhaps that is no bad thing - except that the diet of the poor will get worse.

Hopefully the idea is that if you raise wages then the poor people will be able to afford stuff because they've had a wage rise.

 

[exchemist]

Hopefully the idea is that if you raise wages then the poor people will be able to afford stuff because they've had a wage rise.

Nope. The agricultural workers will do a bit better. The urban poor lose out.

 

[Rival]

Nope. The agricultural workers will do a bit better. The urban poor lose out.

They always do. It needs fixing.

 

[Subduction Zone]

In a very confused way, yes.

I've had taxi drivers moan about the EU and immigration - and then focus on the number of Pakistanis in the country.

And I've heard people blame EU membership for the prevalence of foreign food in our high streets, citing, er, curry houses and Kentucky Fried Chicken as examples.

And people in Lincolnshire have been moaning about floods of seasonal workers coming over to pick fruit and vegetables. Now that we are leaving the EU, they have stopped coming - and the crops are rotting in the fields, because British workers are unwilling to do such hard manual labour for so little pay.

We are also running short of care workers and nurses for the same reason. So the government is now, very quietly, relaxing the controls on immigration that will apply when we leave, so that we will be almost back where we started on immigration - minus all the benefits of EU membership.

You know it makes sense.

You will have the same results that we have had. Very few people are willing to work for the rather poor wages of stoop labor. When your borders were open migrant workers could work the fields and go back home. Your country is going to force them to change from migrants to immigrants. They won't want to take the chance of leaving their source of income. And of course they are going to work like neck so that their children won't have to.

The policies of those that hate immigrants forces more immigrants to come to one's country. How ironic.

 

[icehorse]

My view is that its more directed at xenophobia

I think it's very important to make distinctions. I believe that Islam MUST be reformed, but that doesn't make me xenophobic. For decades now, most western countries have had immigration policies designed to strengthen the host country. There is no obligation to accept immigrants.

My simple response is this: If you share our values, and you can help our country, we should consider letting you move to our country. But we are under no obligation to put up with values like theocracy or anti-secularism.

This is not a racist stance. This is not a xenophobic stance. This is about being honest when it comes to values.

 

[Estro Felino]

I think it's very important to make distinctions. I believe that Islam MUST be reformed, but that doesn't make me xenophobic. For decades now, most western countries have had immigration policies designed to strengthen the host country. There is no obligation to accept immigrants.

My simple response is this: If you share our values, and you can help our country, we should consider letting you move to our country. But we are under no obligation to put up with values like theocracy or anti-secularism.

This is not a racist stance. This is not a xenophobic stance. This is about being honest when it comes to values.

I think what saddens me is that a dictatorship of political correctness is present in Britain, nowadays.
And I confess that I am literally terrified that that dictatorship might be implemented here in Italy as well.
Back to the topic...we love the British...btw....many British citizens live in Italy and their life hasn't changed a bit since Brexit.

 

[ChristineM]

I think it's very important to make distinctions. I believe that Islam MUST be reformed, but that doesn't make me xenophobic. For decades now, most western countries have had immigration policies designed to strengthen the host country. There is no obligation to accept immigrants.

My simple response is this: If you share our values, and you can help our country, we should consider letting you move to our country. But we are under no obligation to put up with values like theocracy or anti-secularism.

This is not a racist stance. This is not a xenophobic stance. This is about being honest when it comes to values.

Yes but that is not what i am talking about, the evidence for me is in the
A) xenophobic social media campaign instigated by those pushing for brexit
B) the rapid increase in xenophobic which have more than doubled (according to police) since the brexit vote

 

[exchemist]

I think what saddens me is that a dictatorship of political correctness is present in Britain, nowadays.
And I confess that I am literally terrified that that dictatorship might be implemented here in Italy as well.
Back to the topic...we love the British...btw....many British citizens live in Italy and their life hasn't changed a bit since Brexit.

What rot. But then, you take Vigano seriously...............

 

[icehorse]

Yes but that is not what i am talking about, the evidence for me is in the
A) xenophobic social media campaign instigated by those pushing for brexit
B) the rapid increase in xenophobic which have more than doubled (according to police) since the brexit vote

No doubt those are concerns. But slightly more than half of the voters, voted to leave, and we should try to understand why. While I certainly don't think that being PC about Islam is the only reason, but I do believe it's one of the reasons.

 

[exchemist]

I think it's very important to make distinctions. I believe that Islam MUST be reformed, but that doesn't make me xenophobic. For decades now, most western countries have had immigration policies designed to strengthen the host country. There is no obligation to accept immigrants.

My simple response is this: If you share our values, and you can help our country, we should consider letting you move to our country. But we are under no obligation to put up with values like theocracy or anti-secularism.

This is not a racist stance. This is not a xenophobic stance. This is about being honest when it comes to values.

I agree with your remarks about some strands of modern Islam. However I would point out that almost all Muslims in Britain live quite happily and peacefully under our secular laws without making any special demands. As ever, it is a tiny fringe that makes all the trouble.

But I admit I am concerned that the puritanical and politicised strands of Islam seem to have become more prominent in recent decades. My own view is the important thing is not to over-react. That will just make groups feel alienated and play into the hands of political Islam, which is really what is as the root of the problem.

 

[ChristineM]

No doubt those are concerns. But slightly more than half of the voters, voted to leave, and we should try to understand why. While I certainly don't think that being PC about Islam is the only reason, but I do believe it's one of the reasons.

Recent surveys now put the figure are around 60/40 to remain in the EU. One of the concerns were the lies of project fear that have now been shown for the lies they were.

 

[exchemist]

No doubt those are concerns. But slightly more than half of the voters, voted to leave, and we should try to understand why. While I certainly don't think that being PC about Islam is the only reason, but I do believe it's one of the reasons.

Why would Islam have anything to do with Brexit? The EU is Christian!

The Muslims we have in Britain come to us chiefly from Pakistan and India, as a result of our colonial links. Nothing to do wth the EU at all.

 

[Estro Felino]

What rot. But then, you take Vigano seriously...............

What about Burke? He might become Pope someday. I hope he does.

Btw...I do understand what @icehorse meant. And I am sure he wasn't speaking of the religious communities already existing in Britain. Living harmoniously within the British society.
He probably meant that after Brexit, a better immigration vetting may be preferable.

 

[exchemist]

What about Burke? He might become Pope someday. I hope he does.

Btw...I do understand what @icehorse meant. And I am sure he wasn't speaking of the religious communities already existing in Britain. Living harmoniously within the British society.
He probably meant that after Brexit, a better immigration vetting may be preferable.

Burke has no chance whatever of being pope. The guy is a dinosaur and he would be an appallingly divisive choice. Benedict was the last gasp of the old gang - and he was a far more spiritual and unifying man than Burke could ever be.

 

[Estro Felino]

Burke has no chance whatever of being pope. The guy is a dinosaur and he would be an appallingly divisive choice. Benedict was the last gasp of the old gang - and he was a far more spiritual and unifying man than Burke could ever be.

But we were speaking of Brexit and you brought up Viganò ...lol


That said...I do not understand what Burke said wrong.
His discourse is incontradictible, perfect.