Fear based religions

[dan]

Wait a minute. This signifigant array of JudeoChristian scholars says nothing about the interpretation of those passages, only that the word fear is used, and I've addressed that. I'll get back to you later.

 

[Surrealgurl]

From my understanding of Christianity (pentecostal is what I was brought up with), you are taught that if you don't accept Jesus as your personal savior, you are going to go to Hell and burn for eternity. If that's not based on fear, then I don't know what is.

 

[Surrealgurl]

Here is a Bible verse:

Luke 12:5 - But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Considering the context of this verse I think it's pretty clear what the word "fear" means here. Threat of being cast into hell sounds pretty scary and fearful to me. How can anybody not see that?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Here is a Bible verse: Luke 12:5 ...

Considering the context of this verse I think it's pretty clear what the word "fear" means here. Threat of being cast into hell sounds pretty scary and fearful to me. How can anybody not see that?

Nicely done, Surrealgurl. Unfortunately, it will not convice our friend Dan. He has far too much invested in his ability to tiptoe through the Scripture with eyes wide shut.

 

[iwilliam]

Fear is the tool of religous ignorance. What loving God would send it's own creation to some mythological lake of fire for disobeying his commands. That just like condeming your son or daughter to death becaus he or she did not disobey you. Bottom line make's no sense what so ever.

 

[iwilliam]

Religous ignorance breeds fear in the hearts of the innocent. Why would your god the all knowing send people to burn in eternal fire? If your child did not listen to your command would his or her punishment be enternal fire? No that's what I thought!!!!

 

[Surrealgurl]

It's kind of like an abusive relationship, isn't it? Consider this quote by William C. Easton II -

"God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That sir, is not free will. It would be akin to a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man does this we call him a psychopath and cry for his imprisonment. When God says the same we call him "loving" and build churches in his honour."

 

[Ceridwen018]

That's an excellent quote--I absolutely agree.

 

[Named]

I too agree with the quote.

The Christian God is supposedly all knowing; he created me knowing I would make the decision to not believe in him.
How could I have escaped this fate?
Does this amuse God?

[Somewhat ignoble for my first post, eh?]

 

[Ardhanariswar]

"God says do what you wish, but make the wrong choice and you will be tortured for eternity in hell. That sir, is not free will. It would be akin to a man telling his girlfriend, do what you wish but if you choose to leave me, I will track you down and blow your brains out. When a man does this we call him a psychopath and cry for his imprisonment. When God says the same we call him "loving" and build churches in his honour."

nice quote. but i think the original God (before christians propelled this idea into perversness) it was kinda like God made you with freewill. if you follow your dharma and do well and earn good karma, you will be happier. thats obvious. but when you fall to sin and vice, earn bad karma, you will obviously suffer. heaven is happiness, hell is suffering.
God wants us to be happy. all we have to do is build up good karma and follow our own dharma. we have to search for the truth and our own path for salvation.

 

[(Q)]

if you follow your dharma and do well and earn good karma, you will be happier. thats obvious.

Yet, bad things happen to good people, so its not so obvious afterall.

but when you fall to sin and vice, earn bad karma, you will obviously suffer. heaven is happiness, hell is suffering.

And if they don't exist, then the criminal who gets away with his crime and goes on to lead a long happy life with his stolen loot has suffered how?

God wants us to be happy

But does everything in his power to make people suffer. How then is one supposed to be happy?

all we have to do is build up good karma and follow our own dharma

Sorry, your god sold the fharma, hence good people still get harma.

 

[Ceridwen018]

I thought there wasn't such thing as good or bad karma. I thought it's just supposed to be straight 'karma'...

 

[Ardhanariswar]

Yet, bad things happen to good people, so its not so obvious afterall.

but when you fall to sin and vice, earn bad karma, you will obviously suffer. heaven is happiness, hell is suffering.

And if they don't exist, then the criminal who gets away with his crime and goes on to lead a long happy life with his stolen loot has suffered how?

God wants us to be happy

But does everything in his power to make people suffer. How then is one supposed to be happy?

bad things happen to good people. ? why? because they proy did soemthing bad in thier previous life. also, God is ultimitly testing us. like in the book of Job.

what is heaven and hell. when i do something bad, the consequences come back to me, im suffering i am in *hell*. when i do good things, im happy, and im in *heaven*. those arent literal places of fire and clouds, they are simple states of mind.

God wants us to be happy. but we make ourselves suffer by desire.

 

[(Q)]

bad things happen to good people. ? why? because they proy did soemthing bad in thier previous life.

Previous life? What happened to the eternal afterlife? And if they did something bad in a previous life, don't you think they already would have been judged for that?

those arent literal places of fire and clouds, they are simple states of mind.

What about when you die? Your brain is dead and therefore cannot possibly have any other state.

God wants us to be happy. but we make ourselves suffer by desire.

We desire to suffer? Explain?

 

[Ardhanariswar]

the four noble truths:

1. Life means suffering.

2. The origin of suffering is attachment.

3. The cessation of suffering is attainable.

4. The path to the cessation of suffering.

this site contains a good amount of info on WHY: http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/fourtruths.html

To live means to suffer, because the human nature is not perfect and neither is the world we live in. During our lifetime, we inevitably have to endure physical suffering such as pain, sickness, injury, tiredness, old age, and eventually death; and we have to endure psychological suffering like sadness, fear, frustration, disappointment, and depression.

The origin of suffering is attachment to transient things and the ignorance thereof. Transient things do not only include the physical objects that surround us, but also ideas, and -in a greater sense- all objects of our perception. Ignorance is the lack of understanding of how our mind is attached to impermanent things. The reasons for suffering are desire, passion, ardor, pursue of wealth and prestige, striving for fame and popularity, or in short: craving and clinging.

The path to the end of suffering can extend over many lifetimes, throughout which every individual rebirth is subject to karmic conditioning. Craving, ignorance, delusions, and its effects will disappear gradually, as progress is made on the path.