Father alone is God

[Trailblazer]

1 Tim. 3:16 ("God was manifest in the flesh")

As this is translated in the KJV it makes Paul say that Jesus is God “manifest in the flesh.”

Although the KJV translates 1 Tim. 3:16 with “God” as above, nearly all other translations today use a word which refers, not to God, but to Jesus: “he” (NIV; RSV; NRSV; JB; NJB; REB; NAB [‘70]; AT; GNB; CBW; and Beck’s translation), “he who” (ASV; NASB; NEB; MLB; BBE; Phillips; and Moffatt), “who,” or “which.” Even the equally old

I think that all these translations mean essentially the same thing. Jesus manifested the Attributes of God by coming in the flesh, so in that sense God was manifest in the flesh. But the Essence of God was not manifested in the flesh, only the Attributes of God (such as Good, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, Patient) were manifested in the flesh.
Or to put it another way, Jesus came in the flesh and revealed (manifested) the Attributes of God.

KJV
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

NASB
Beyond question, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.

NIV
Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: He appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit, was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory.

NRSV
Without any doubt, the mystery of our religion is great: He was revealed in flesh, vindicated in spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among Gentiles, believed in throughout the world, taken up in glory.

Why do the best trinitarian scholars support this NON-trinitarian translation of 1 Tim. 3:16? - Dr. Frederick C. Grant; United Bible Societies (UBS); Murray J. Harris; A. T. Robertson; Daniel B. Wallace; etc.

"As attractive theologically [for trinitarians, of course] as the reading θεὸς may be, it is spurious. To reject it is not to deny the deity of Christ, of course; it is just to deny any explicit reference in this text.” [italicized emphasis is by Wallace]. - pp. 341-342, Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, Zondervan, 1996.

They support the KJV translation because they want to maintain their belief that Jesus was God in the flesh.
However, the KJV does not even say that Jesus was God in the flesh; it says that God was manifest in the flesh, not that God was incarnated in the flesh.

"The Christian equivalent to the Bahá'í concept of Manifestation is the concept of incarnation. The word to incarnate means 'to embody in flesh or 'to assume, or exist in, a bodily (esp. a human) form (Oxford English Dictionary). From a Bahá'í point of view, the important question regarding the subject of incarnation is, what does Jesus incarnate? Bahá'ís can certainly say that Jesus incarnated Gods attributes, in the sense that in Jesus, Gods attributes were perfectly reflected and expressed.[4] The Bahá'í scriptures, however, reject the belief that the ineffable essence of the Divinity was ever perfectly and completely contained in a single human body, because the Bahá'í scriptures emphasize the omnipresence and transcendence of the essence of God….."

Jesus Christ in the Bahá'í Writings

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

If it were as if HE was one because of closeness, then it would be a lie to say they are one.

There are 50 states in the U>S> but they are one country in matters of health and defense and education and more. One goal, one purpose, one mind.

 

[Yahcubs777]

There are 50 states in the U>S> but they are one country in matters of health and defense and education and more. One goal, one purpose, one mind.

Did you just compare America, to the GOD?

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Did you just compare America, to the GOD?

 

[Trailblazer]

GOD is not a force. GOD is not an instinct. GOD is not power. GOD is not a creature. GOD is the Supreme Spirit Being. They wrote that GOD is love, no, HE isn't Love, HE loves. They wrote that GOD is light, no, HE created light.

I agree with all of the above.

GOD has HIS Own body. Proof, GOD has no ending and no beginning. It is written that GOD has HIS throne, does HIS Throne also have no beginnng? Or do you think its just a Great and Wonderful chair? HIS throne is HIS body. That is why they wrote: The body is the temple of the holy spirit, but they misinterpreted that to mean GOD's own Spirit, when it means the persons own Spirit; their own body is their own temple, for their own Spirit.

I do not believe that God has a body because God is a Spirit Being.
To say that God sits on His throne is symbolic for God having all Power. For example, Baha'u'llah referred to God and said that none can rival His glory. Nobody can be partners with God because God is one and alone, without peer or equal.

“And now concerning thy reference to the existence of two Gods. Beware, beware, lest thou be led to join partners with the Lord, thy God. He is, and hath from everlasting been, one and alone, without peer or equal, eternal in the past, eternal in the future, detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. He hath assigned no associate unto Himself in His Kingdom, no counsellor to counsel Him, none to compare unto Him, none to rival His glory. To this every atom of the universe beareth witness, and beyond it the inmates of the realms on high, they that occupy the most exalted seats, and whose names are remembered before the Throne of Glory.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 192

GOD has HIS own body; HE does not send HIS Spirit Being in pieces to live inside anyone, and then to say that knowing the kind of temple they have is perishable, is a height of Blasphemy.

I do not believe that God has a body, I consider this sheer Blasphemy, anthropomorphizing God..
I also do not believe that the Holy Spirit lives inside of anyone.

They wrote in Joel 2: that GOD will pour out his Spirit upon all flesh. GODs Spirit Being is not the kind you can pour. This means HE will pour out Revelations, the waters of life; upon all flesh. So it has been badly misinterpreted and Apostle Peter and co did not help matters.

I believe that God poured out His Spirit on all flesh in the last days when He sent Baha'ullah, just as He had done when he sent Jesus.

GOD has HIS Definite shape, and HIS own anatomy. GOD is the Supreme Spirit Being. So The Most Holy Spirit of GOD, is who took the body that HE coupled from the blessed Virgin Mary. It is the same GOD as the GOD of creation. Not a manifestation of HIS qualities. It is HIS incarnate Manifestation.

You are referring to Jesus, not to God., Jesus was not God, He was a Manifestation of God.
God has no shape or anatomy, God is formless since God is Spirit.

 

[Yahcubs777]

I agree with all of the above.

I do not believe that God has a body because God is a Spirit Being.
To say that God sits on His throne is symbolic for God having all Power. For example, Baha'u'llah referred to God and said that none can rival His glory. Nobody can be partners with God because God is one and alone, without peer or equal.

“And now concerning thy reference to the existence of two Gods. Beware, beware, lest thou be led to join partners with the Lord, thy God. He is, and hath from everlasting been, one and alone, without peer or equal, eternal in the past, eternal in the future, detached from all things, ever-abiding, unchangeable, and self-subsisting. He hath assigned no associate unto Himself in His Kingdom, no counsellor to counsel Him, none to compare unto Him, none to rival His glory. To this every atom of the universe beareth witness, and beyond it the inmates of the realms on high, they that occupy the most exalted seats, and whose names are remembered before the Throne of Glory.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 192

I do not believe that God has a body, I consider this sheer Blasphemy, anthropomorphizing God..
I also do not believe that the Holy Spirit lives inside of anyone.

I believe that God poured out His Spirit on all flesh in the last days when He sent Baha'ullah, just as He had done when he sent Jesus.

You are referring to Jesus, not to God., Jesus was not God, He was a Manifestation of God.
God has no shape or anatomy, God is formless since God is Spirit.

Preface: First of all, i am no longer going to be answering in details, to avoid being moderated continuously.So, i will keep this short. You have your belief system, you see the words written according to your mindset; its either you are right, or I am right. We will see who is right in time.

Man is a Spirit Being. Man has a physical body. Man is not the body. Secondly, GOD doesn't need a throne to have all the power, HE is GOD. Before Father Adam was birthed, HE is GOD. Which means HE didn't have to start creating to be GOD, HE is GOD.

GOD has Pre-Eminence in all things. This was written concerning Jesus His Pre-Eminence, who you claim is the Son of GOD. How can the Son have Pre-Eminence in all things yet HE is not GOD? So why would you think that another can have a physical body before HIM? It isn't anthropomorphising GOD, you wouldn't know, that actually anything said directed to GOD that is untrue; that is blasphemous, that is riotous to cosmic methodology, bounces back to the person. Therefore, I, ot anyone else cannot do anything the GOD of Creation; GOD is impregnable. Man, Adam, who was birthed by the Most Holy Spirit of GOD inherited HIS character from his father.

If GOD poured HIS Spirit upon all flesh when you say, then why isn't everyone a follower of your "prophet"? It says all flesh. It doesn't say some.

Finally, what you are describing is a demon. A demon has no spirit body; or physical body. A demon is formless. A demon has no definite shape. This is not accurate concerning GOD.

GOD said Let us Make man in our image after our likeness but you say HE has no body.Yet Man has a body. And where you even get Image from is the body that can be seen. What has not been well understood is who HE is talking to. HE isn't talking to HIMSELF. But i won't share that, or any other things to prevent being moderated.

In the end, you have your beliefs, I have mine.

 

[Trailblazer]

How can the Son have Pre-Eminence in all things yet HE is not GOD?

How can a Son be the Father?

If GOD poured HIS Spirit upon all flesh when you say, then why isn't everyone a follower of your "prophet"? It says all flesh. It doesn't say some.

God poured His Spirit out on everyone when He sent Baha'u'llah but not everyone knows about Baha'u'llah and most people who have heard of Him have rejected Him, mostly because they have another religion they adhere to. If they are Christians they are waiting for the same Jesus to return.

GOD said Let us Make man in our image after our likeness but you say HE has no body.Yet Man has a body. And where you even get Image from is the body that can be seen.

When God said Let us Make man in our image after our likeness God was referring to the qualities of the Soul, not the physical body.

 

[Yahcubs777]

How can a Son be the Father?

God poured His Spirit out on everyone when He sent Baha'u'llah but not everyone knows about Baha'u'llah and most people who have heard of Him have rejected Him, mostly because they have another religion they adhere to. If they are Christians they are waiting for the same Jesus to return.

When God said Let us Make man in our image after our likeness God was referring to the qualities of the Soul, not the physical body.

No, HE was referring to HIS body. Because Man would be how the Cherubim, Seraphim and Angels would be able to know how GOD looks. Because contrary to Christians belief system, GOD does not live with HIS creatures in Heaven. And they have never seen HIM as HE is in HIS capital size before.

GOD does not reside in any planet, any world, HE is above that.

Exactly, The Father is not HIS own son, HE the GOD came in the similitudes of the Son of GOD Adam, and they got the revelation of that and called HIM the second Adam.

Then I'm sorry, it's not poured out on all flesh.

 

[Trailblazer]

No, HE was referring to HIS body. Because Man would be how the Cherubim, Seraphim and Angels would be able to know how GOD looks. Because contrary to Christians belief system, GOD does not live with HIS creatures in Heaven. And they have never seen HIS image before.

GOD does not reside in any planet, any world, HE is above that.

Exactly, The Father is not HIS own son, HE the GOD came in the similitudes of the Son of GOD Adam, and they got the revelation of that and called HIM the second Adam.

Then I'm sorry, it's not poured out on all flesh.

Believe as you wish.
Since you have everything figured out, why have discussions with anyone?

 

[Yahcubs777]

Believe as you wish.
Since you have everything figured out, why have discussions with anyone?

To share what I have known. I did say before, you have your beliefs, and I have mine. I don't have everything figured out, I am learning alot though and quickly.

 

[ToGodorNottoGod]

You are referring to Jesus, not to God., Jesus was not God, He was a Manifestation of God.
God has no shape or anatomy, God is formless since God is Spirit.

Well that depends on which scripture you use...

 

[Trailblazer]

Well that depends on which scripture you use...

As well as how you interpret that scripture.

 

[ToGodorNottoGod]

As well as how you interpret that scripture.

Ha! Fer sure... that's both the agony and ecstasy of it isn't it....well, I mean, hey, we could be involved in something much more heinous and dangerous.... so there is that.

 

[Muffled]

Is there any reason why Jesus cannot have several titles? He is the Christ and also the savior and also that part of God which came to earth as a flesh and blood human. Why can't the Father and Son both be God.

When talking about essences then God does not have a body and Jesus does. However when talking about identification then Jesus is God in the flesh.

 

[Muffled]

Then after that few years?

Regards Tony

I believe then He returns to rule over the Kingdom of God. A few as in more than 2000.

 

[Muffled]

We know Paul was speaking under inspiration, when he wrote 2 Corinthians 4:3, 4.
If I tried to put a veil over your eyes, I would have to work very hard to do that. I image it would be quite easy for a powerful spirit being to put a veil over a mere human's mind, so that that one becomes totally deluded... and if God let's that happen, without lifting a finger to help, because that person did not want the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:9-12... that person might as well consider themselves as those described at Matthew 23:33.

.Consider...

Trinitarians shoot themselves in the foot several times, and never feel it.

The Bible reads...
View attachment 48312
We can compare Job 1:6.
If the angels ae sons of God, and they are not part of God's family, whose family do Trinitarians say they belong? Surely they are not adopted.

Of course, they put a twist on Revelation 3:14, claiming that it says, Jesus is the beginning - as in the beginner of God's creation, but of course if they want to support their doctrine, Jesus can't have a beginning.
Why is Jesus a son?
Why does he have a father?
The holy spirit has neither. That's odd.

How is Jesus the firstborn of all creation, if it is not saying he was created? Was there a second born who created?
If Jesus was created then the argument that saying he and the father are one, means he is God, becomes...

We must remember though, that it requires patience to help lost-wandering-souls. They have been led astray, and it's possible they can find the path, if they don't prefer the pastures belonging to the stranger, and the thieves.

I believe one may say the body of Jesus was created. The Spirit of God in Him is eternal.

I believe He was the first and only one.

I believe since it is the Spirit of God speaking when He says He is one with the Father then creation does not make any difference since that is only about the body.

I believe one only needs to inspect oneself on this matter but the person has to be honest with himself.