Fake Covid Vaccination Cards Are on the Rise

[We Never Know]

Their hospitalization rate is increasing.
A bad thing that is....hardly "mild".

Breakthrough cases are rare however on the rise but less severe

Reinfection are rare and less severe. How many, there are not many studies.

Pediatric infections are on the rise with more becoming severe/requiring hospitalization. Last I read they make up around 20% of new cases.

Unvaccinated case are on the rise and hospitalization for them is on the rise.

Both vaccinated and unvaccinated can catch and spread it. With the new variant the viral loads are similar, with less severity to the vaccinated

I'm not an antivaxxer. Ive had covid.
Do you need a vaccination? In my opinion..
-if you are high risk, yes.
-if you are worried, yes
-if you have had covid, that's debatable
-if you are very healthy, it should be your choice but keep in mind even healthy people are getting taken down.

In my opinion taking the vaccine doesn't make a person good or bad. Its does however bring some peace of mind and less severity.
The ones that took it chose to take it, so the vaccine should be a choice either way.

 

[Revoltingest]

Breakthrough cases are rare however on the rise but less severe

Reinfection are rare and less severe. How many, there are not many studies.

Pediatric infections are on the rise with more becoming severe/requiring hospitalization. Last I read they make up around 20% of new cases.

Unvaccinated case are on the rise and hospitalization for them is on the rise.

Both vaccinated and unvaccinated can catch and spread it. With the new variant the viral loads are similar, with less severity to the vaccinated

I'm not an antivaxxer. Ive had covid.
Do you need a vaccination? In my opinion..
-if you are high risk, yes.
-if you are worried, yes
-if you have had covid, that's debatable
-if you are very healthy, it should be your choice but keep in mind even healthy people are getting taken down.

In my opinion taking the vaccine doesn't make a person good or bad. Its does however bring some peace of mind and less severity.
The ones that took it chose to take it, so the vaccine should be a choice either way.

I'll add that masking for all is wise when indoors with
all those disease ridden humans. The side benefit of
this is contracting fewer other diseases.
It's been wonderful skipping my usual nasty winter cold.

 

[We Never Know]

I'll add that masking for all is wise when indoors with
all those disease ridden humans. The side benefit of
this is contracting fewer other diseases.
It's been wonderful skipping my usual nasty winter cold.

Yes. I'm not against masking for anyone.

 

[Kenny]

Their hospitalization rate is increasing.
A bad thing that is....hardly "mild".

Infection after vaccination has the benefit of less severe infirmity.
You wouldn't be advocating acquiring immunity by contracting the
disease, would you?

But who is being hospitalized? Why? Circumstances? New or reinfection? Other adverse body circumstances (like overweight, heart disease et al)? I just don't like putting everything in one box and then just giving it a general label.

But no... not advocating contracting the disease. But if one did contract COVID (as I have), I don't advocate vaccination.

 

[Revoltingest]

But who is being hospitalized? Why? Circumstances? New or reinfection?

Children.
In hospitals cuz they're so very sick.
New infections.

It's been all over the news.
Dang Delta+ variant...it's a game changer
in who suffers, & how transmissible it is.

 

[Kenny]

Children.
In hospitals cuz they're so very sick.
New infections.

It's been all over the news.
Dang Delta+ variant...it's a game changer
in who suffers, & how transmissible it is.

Despite the dramatic increase in cases, Laham and other pediatric infectious disease experts nationwide tell NBC News that there is no hard evidence yet that the delta variant has transformed the virus into something more dangerous in kids.

"It's too early to tell," said Dr. Bernhard Wiedermann, an infectious diseases specialist at Children's National Hospital in Washington, D.C. "It's going to take time and a collection of data from multiple sites to know" whether the delta variant is, in fact, more virulent in kids than previous versions of the virus.

'Never seen anything like it': Delta is making a growing number of kids very sick

People, because of fear, tend to go to the hospital for just about anything.

But, as we can see from Arnold Palmer Hospital, too early to come to any conclusions other than children can get it a little quicker.

Can't find any children fatalities due to the variant.

 

[Revoltingest]

Despite the dramatic increase in cases, Laham and other pediatric infectious disease experts nationwide tell NBC News that there is no hard evidence yet that the delta variant has transformed the virus into something more dangerous in kids.

This runs counter to what I'm hearing from
hospital staff, ie, that formerly they saw few
children, but now they're seeing many.

This is not a statistical study. But sometimes
observations are what inspire studies.

"It's too early to tell," said Dr. Bernhard Wiedermann, an infectious diseases specialist at Children's National Hospital in Washington, D.C. "It's going to take time and a collection of data from multiple sites to know" whether the delta variant is, in fact, more virulent in kids than previous versions of the virus.

'Never seen anything like it': Delta is making a growing number of kids very sick

People, because of fear, tend to go to the hospital for just about anything.

Children aren't being hospitalized for mere fear.

But, as we can see from Arnold Palmer Hospital, too early to come to any conclusions other than children can get it a little quicker.

Can't find any children fatalities due to the variant.

Even without child deaths, they have become seriously ill,
& with no data on long term damage. Long haulers are
25% of Covid sufferers (last I read). The other risk is of
overloading hospitals, putting care generally at risk.

 

[Kenny]

This runs counter to what I'm hearing from
hospital staff, ie, that formerly they saw few
children, but now they're seeing many.

This is not a statistical study. But sometimes
observations are what inspire studies.

True.... but we don't come to conclusions until all the evidence is in.

Children aren't being hospitalized for mere fear.

No... but parents do take children to the hospital and doctors because of fear.

Even without child deaths, they have become seriously ill,
& with no data on long term damage. Long haulers are
25% of Covid sufferers (last I read). The other risk is of
overloading hospitals, putting care generally at risk.

1) Children's vaccine is called: an emergency Phase 3 clinical trial - which means they have no idea what will happen
2) According to the clinical trial's findings, 77.5 percent of adolescents ages 12 to 15 experienced fatigue after getting the Pfizer vaccine SHORT TERM - we have no idea what long term side effects might be
3) 75.5 percent of kids reported having a headache versus 5
4) 49.2 percent of kids experienced chills
5) 42.2 percent of kids had muscle pain,
6) 24.3 percent of kids had a fever
7) 0.8 percent of kids had swollen lymph nodes

These are all SHORT TERM side effects... we have no idea what long term effects might be.

I wouldn't want my child to be the guinea pig on this trial... not when there are COVID remedies with almost less side effect with a proven history.
78 Percent of Kids Have This COVID Vaccine Side Effect, Data Shows

 

[Revoltingest]

True.... but we don't come to conclusions until all the evidence is in.

So it's best to assume that it's nothing, rather
than take precautions that have minimal
inconvenience, eg, social separation, masks?

No... but parents do take children to the hospital and doctors because of fear.

Do you believe that it's best to assume that these
kid who are hospitalized with severe sickness are
just there because of parental fear?
I don't think they'd be admitted for that.

1) Children's vaccine is called: an emergency Phase 3 clinical trial - which means they have no idea what will happen
2) According to the clinical trial's findings, 77.5 percent of adolescents ages 12 to 15 experienced fatigue after getting the Pfizer vaccine SHORT TERM - we have no idea what long term side effects might be
3) 75.5 percent of kids reported having a headache versus 5
4) 49.2 percent of kids experienced chills
5) 42.2 percent of kids had muscle pain,
6) 24.3 percent of kids had a fever
7) 0.8 percent of kids had swollen lymph nodes

These are all SHORT TERM side effects... we have no idea what long term effects might be.

I notice that the only maladies you cite are those related
to the vaccine. There are infirmities resulting from being
sick with Covid too. If they aren't compared for frequency
& severity, it's naught but confirmation bias.

I wouldn't want my child to be the guinea pig on this trial... not when there are COVID remedies with almost less side effect with a proven history.
78 Percent of Kids Have This COVID Vaccine Side Effect, Data Shows

Again, this is one sided. Neither would one
want their child to come down with Covid.

 

[Kenny]

So it's best to assume that it's nothing, rather
than take precautions that have minimal
inconvenience, eg, social separation, masks?

No... and i assume that I have never said that. If someone is coughing and/or is running a fever, the precaution is keep them at home.

A child psyche is just as important as their physical health. Social separation and masks are not good for their emotional well being. Isn't their emotional well being important too?

Do you believe that it's best to assume that these
kid who are hospitalized with severe sickness are
just there because of parental fear?
I don't think they'd be admitted for that.

Again... I don't think I said that and if that was intimated, I apologize.

I notice that the only maladies you cite are those related
to the vaccine. There are infirmities resulting from being
sick with Covid too. If they aren't compared for frequency
& severity, it's naught but confirmation bias.

Any death is a horrible thing to experience at that age. For regular children, of normal health, I don't believe COVID (of any type) has been a death sentence (I could be wrong... I don't know all things. I do hope we are talking about normal circumstances.

Again, this is one sided. Neither would one
want their child to come down with Covid.

Of course not. Didn't want my children and grandchildren to have fevers, chicken pox, colds, covid or broken bones... but those things do/did happen, don't they?

 

[Revoltingest]

No... and i assume that I have never said that. If someone is coughing and/or is running a fever, the precaution is keep them at home.

A child psyche is just as important as their physical health. Social separation and masks are not good for their emotional well being. Isn't their emotional well being important too?

Social separation doesn't mean isolation...just keeping some distance.

Again... I don't think I said that and if that was intimated, I apologize.

I asked the question because I suspected but didn't know.

Any death is a horrible thing to experience at that age. For regular children, of normal health, I don't believe COVID (of any type) has been a death sentence (I could be wrong... I don't know all things. I do hope we are talking about normal circumstances.

Hundreds have died, but this is a small fraction of
those infected. However this could change for the
worse because of Delta Plus.
Pediatric patient dies from COVID-19, more hospitalized, Nemour's confirms

Of course not. Didn't want my children and grandchildren to have fevers, chicken pox, colds, covid or broken bones... but those things do/did happen, don't they?

Yes, diseases will afflict children. But if they can
be avoided by vaccination or other means, I say it's
worth doing, eg, smallpox, polio, diphtheria, HPV,
tetanus. The side effects of the vaccine are less
frequent & less severe than effects of those & many
other diseases.

 

[Kenny]

Social separation doesn't mean isolation...just keeping some distance

I would assume that you have had children or at the least you have been a child - there is no such thing as "social distancing" with children. There is only isolation. IMV If I said "You stay seated in that chair and you stay in that other chair for the next hour" it was isolation. And social distancing will be a fight for all parents with their children.

Hundreds have died, but this is a small fraction of
those infected. However this could change for the
worse because of Delta Plus.
Pediatric patient dies from COVID-19, more hospitalized, Nemour's confirms

I looked at it and there just seems to be a glossing over although children are imporatn. Were there mitigating circumstances beyond covid?

I look for key words and this is what I found:

"Though the numbers of pediatric cases are still fairly low"
"Relatively small numbers but it's the increase that I found most alarming" - the increase gave it a total of 135 in all of Florida.
"It does seem to actually attack children... more aggressively"

All I am saying is that this isn't another "pandemic" situation and we are still dealing with side effect of that experimental vaccine which outweigh the infection IMO

I am more concerned about the children's adverse reaction to the vaccine and their health.

Yes, diseases will afflict children. But if they can
be avoided by vaccination or other means, I say it's
worth doing, eg, smallpox, polio, diphtheria, HPV,
tetanus. The side effects of the vaccine are less
frequent & less severe than effects of those & many
other diseases.

It seems to me the side effects are MORE frequent.
"These vaccines have likely claimed more victims than all other vaccines over the past 30 years — combined." Dr. Malone - who helped pioneer the mRNA vaccine technology upon which the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are based"

Why They’re Suppressing Vaccine Side Effects - Daily Reckoning

Of course one could say it isn't a good web-site... but did that change what Dr. Malone said and the fact that he isn't an anti-vaxxer? Or that it is still an experimental drug that they are trying to see what its capacity is and what the longterm side effects might be?

 

[Revoltingest]

I would assume that you have had children or at the least you have been a child - there is no such thing as "social distancing" with children. There is only isolation. IMV If I said "You stay seated in that chair and you stay in that other chair for the next hour" it was isolation. And social distancing will be a fight for all parents with their children.



I looked at it and there just seems to be a glossing over although children are imporatn. Were there mitigating circumstances beyond covid?

I look for key words and this is what I found:

"Though the numbers of pediatric cases are still fairly low"
"Relatively small numbers but it's the increase that I found most alarming" - the increase gave it a total of 135 in all of Florida.
"It does seem to actually attack children... more aggressively"

All I am saying is that this isn't another "pandemic" situation and we are still dealing with side effect of that experimental vaccine which outweigh the infection IMO

I am more concerned about the children's adverse reaction to the vaccine and their health.




It seems to me the side effects are MORE frequent.
"These vaccines have likely claimed more victims than all other vaccines over the past 30 years — combined." Dr. Malone - who helped pioneer the mRNA vaccine technology upon which the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are based"

Why They’re Suppressing Vaccine Side Effects - Daily Reckoning

Of course one could say it isn't a good web-site... but did that change what Dr. Malone said and the fact that he isn't an anti-vaxxer? Or that it is still an experimental drug that they are trying to see what its capacity is and what the longterm side effects might be?

It’s all a big conspiracy, eh.
Would say more, but power outage has me posting on phone.

 

[ecco]

If it was up to me, I'd make it a law to prevent any unvaccinated person from entering any public building or gathering space. No restaurants, no offices, no rock concerts, no bars, no beaches.

What if the person was tested 15 minutes prior and was negative?

If it was up to me, I'd make it a law to prevent any unvaccinated person from entering any public building or gathering space. No restaurants, no offices, no rock concerts, no bars, no beaches.

If the person is too ignorant, arrogant, stupid to not get vaccinated and protect his fellow citizens, he should no longer be able to enjoy the benefits of civilized society.

 

[ecco]

And here's my "actually" that happened.

When it got tested 3 weeks ago(I was negative), in the car beside me the person(who tested positive) was arguing with the nurse saying "I can't be positive, I'm vaccinated, here's my paperwork, your test is wrong!

That person was more dangerous for others to be around than I was.

So, you post an anecdote to try to show that a vaccinated person is ignorant of the fact that vaccines are not 100% effective.

The vaccinated posters here on RF all seem to know that the vaccines are not 100% effective. The media has stated, over and over, that the vaccines are not 100% effective. Yet you end up next to a person who didn't get the message.

But where did you get covid tests with instant results? As far as I know, there are none. Were you guys sitting next to each other for fifteen minutes awaiting the results?

 

[ecco]

Where would we go?

Consider what Rhett Butler famously said.

Never have. Vaccination status has nothing to do what people know or don't know.

Vaccine status has everything to do with people who accept science and people who disparage science and base their decisions on talking heads in the media, the Facebooks, and the YouTubes.

"We are not going back to masks. Masks provide an additional barrier to the spread of the virus. Is that so hard to understand?"

From your other reply, we are.

CDC says some vaccinated Americans should wear masks indoors again

Previously you wrote...(My emphasis)

Since we are going back to masks, I assume they're going to improve the vaccine or maybe create a new one that would fight against the new variant.

My comment was to state that we are not GOING BACK to masks. The need for masks has always been there. Unfortunately, some idiot Governors like Florida's DeSantis and Texas' Abbott not only lifted mask mandates but ordered that no business was allowed to make mask-wearing manatory.

Both states now have the highest incidence of new cases in the country. Abbott, hypocritically, is asking other states to send medical supplies and personnel.

Our apartment complex sent us a letter today saying as per CDC guidelines we need to wear masks regardless our vaccination status.

Good!

 

[ecco]

Ok... but have you considered the other viewpoint?
Natural immunity vs Covid-19 vaccine-induced immunity - Marc Girardot of PANDA - BizNews.com

You really scrape the bottom of the ****piles in order to further your ideology.

Note in your own link it states: Marc Girardot of PANDA

So what is PANDA? Did you bother to find out? I doubt it.

Panda.org's site says:

Who We Are

All around the world, people are waking up to the deepening crisis of nature loss. We’re experiencing a growing realization that nature is our life-support system and that no one will be spared from the impacts of its loss.


Here at WWF, an independent conservation organization active in nearly 100 countries, we are working to sustain the natural world for the benefit of people and wildlife.
​

That sure doesn't sound like Marc Girardot's PANDA. Let's dig a little deeper.


Marc Girardot's PANDA

About - PANDA​

A group of multi-disciplinary professionals, who perceived the global reaction to Covid, and lockdown in particular, as overwrought and damaging to the point of causing a great tear in the fabric of society, established PANDA (Pandemics Data & Analytics) in April 2020. As a politically and economically independent organisation, PANDA seeks to develop science-based explanations and test them against international data. Policy recommendations for governments and other institutions can be developed from these. PANDA stands for open science and rational debate, for replacing flawed science with good science and for retrieving liberty and prosperity from the clutches of a dystopian “new normal”.

Nick Hudson CHAIRMAN
Nick Hudson is an actuary with broad international experience in finance

Peter Castleden ACTUARY
Peter Castleden is an actuary with broad management experience

Abir Ballan MASTERS IN PUBLIC HEALTH
Abir has a masters in public health, psychology, and education. She’s been a passionate advocate for the inclusion of students with learning difficulties in schools. She has also published 27 children’s books in Arabic.

David Bell PHD PUBLIC HEALTH
David is a clinical and public health physician with a PhD in population health and background ​

Notable epidemiologists? None.
Epidemiologists? None.
Years of doing research into the cause and effects of pandemics? One.
Amount of my surprise that you would quote from an organization like this instead of using the advice of real science? Zero.

 

[ecco]

Proof Covid is turning into a mild illness? Survivors who get reinfected have lower viral loads | Daily Mail Online

Once again, either you did not read the article, or you cherry-picked. Here are some parts you may have "missed" (my emphases to help you understand).

Nearly 37.5million adults have had both doses of jabs made by either Pfizer or AstraZeneca.

No vaccine is perfect and many people who are fully-inoculated are still at risk of getting infected.

But the current crop of jabs being used in Britain have drastically slashed the risk of infected people becoming ill.

He said: 'These findings show past infection results in immunity that provides good, but not absolute, protection from reinfection, at least over a relatively short time period.

He added: 'We think vaccines will produce even higher levels of protection, even in those previously infected, so I would still urge everyone invited to get both doses of vaccine.​

 

[Kooky]

True.... but we don't come to conclusions until all the evidence is in.

What criterium would you use to measure the point at which "all the evidence" has been "in"? How would you count the amount of evidence, and how would you determine the amount of evidence necessary to come to a conclusion?

 

[ecco]

In the beginning of the pandemic, many of the victims were the elderly in nursing homes. They reinfected each other repeatedly before anyone knew what was going on.

Schools were quickly closed.

Now schools are reopening. Across the country, Governors, in spite of science to the contrary, are ordering that masks and vaccines cannot be mandated.

Because of "no social distancing" and "no masks" rules, Florida and Texas have infection rates at the highest levels in the country.

The next few months will show the wisdom of these rules. I hope the cost won't be too high.

In the meantime, anti-science mobs are threatening school board members who voted to mandate masks in defiance of Governors' edicts.