Faith

[Genna]

I watch the Discovery channel oftentimes and the History channel. There are documentaries where "Christian" archaeologists try and find "proof" of Noahs ark, the ark of the convenant, the tomb where Jesus was buried, etc. How is this beneficial? I mean, isn't one of the essential foundations of Christianity "faith"? The bible defines faith as:

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Further it states:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I personally am now somehwat convinced by reading. But If someone can prove to an athiest that Jesus was a genuine historical person, worked miracles, was crucified and rose from the dead, how would this atheist be saved? Since it is by "faith" a person is saved according to Christianity. He (the atheist) no longer has faith since he has seen all the evidence necesarry for him to believe, therefore faith is null and void.

 

[logician]

"But If someone can prove to an athiest that Jesus was a genuine historical person, worked miracles, was crucified and rose from the dead,"

I'd like to see this.

 

[Genna]

"But If someone can prove to an athiest that Jesus was a genuine historical person, worked miracles, was crucified and rose from the dead,"

I'd like to see this.

Exactly, if your never going to be convinced of the stories in the bible as factual, your never going to be saved, since you don't have faith. Why do "Christian" archaeologists try and prove to some with evidence which can be seen? How does this help? it doesn't!

 

[Snowbear]

Most of those who saw Jesus work miracles in person were not convinced. There's no way mere archeological evidence will convince those who won't believe.

 

[logician]

"your never going to be saved"

Don't want to be saved, have nothing to be saved from.

 

[nutshell]

I watch the Discovery channel oftentimes and the History channel. There are documentaries where "Christian" archaeologists try and find "proof" of Noahs ark, the ark of the convenant, the tomb where Jesus was buried, etc. How is this beneficial? I mean, isn't one of the essential foundations of Christianity "faith"? The bible defines faith as:

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Further it states:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I personally am now somehwat convinced by reading. But If someone can prove to an athiest that Jesus was a genuine historical person, worked miracles, was crucified and rose from the dead, how would this atheist be saved? Since it is by "faith" a person is saved according to Christianity. He (the atheist) no longer has faith since he has seen all the evidence necesarry for him to believe, therefore faith is null and void.

These endeavors to find physical historical evidence are often interesting, but they don't convert. Only the Spirit can do that.

So, I guess I'm saying I totally agree with you (probably for the first and last time ).

 

[Super Universe]

A world of faith cannot save he who continues to put himself above others.

Choose to be good, even though you may have no reason to.

 

[joeboonda]

20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
(King James Bible, John)
5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.
(King James Bible, 1 John)

Yes, blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. These eye-witnesses wrote these things down, so we may believe and know we have eternal life. We have no need to check our brains at the door, go on blind faith, to believe. Archeology, history, all the 25,000 some greek manuscripts of the New Testament scripture, and any outside writings, etc. that would help us to know these things happenned and were true are all good, great infallible proofs to some of us. They bolster our faith. When Peter received power from the Holy Spirit and boldly proclaimed to the Jews that they killed their Messiah, and that He rose again, 3,000 believed and were saved that day. Others, however, did not except Christ, even though they could not produce a body, and we know the guards did not fall asleep! Thus came the great persecution, and yet here we are, 2,000 years later, and Christians are still on this earth. Although each disciple died proclaiming Christ risen, and we know that although someone may die for what they believe to be true, but its false, nobody has ever died for what they know to be a lie. Thing is, just as they did back then, when it all took place, people reject His free gift for any number of reasons, pride, sin, and selfishness being some of the top. I believe it, I know I have sinned, and need a Saviour, its not that hard for me to see that. Jesus is my only hope, I know of no other.

 

[writer]

1 faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.
I personally am now somehwat convinced by reading.
i agree w/ 9. But "convinced" of what, dear genna?

But If someone can prove to an athiest that Jesus was a genuine historical person, worked miracles, was crucified and rose from the dead, how would this atheist be saved?
By meetin Jesus risen for him or herself (eg Ac 9; Rm 10)

...no longer has faith since he has seen all the evidence necesarry for him to believe, therefore faith is null and void.
The risen Jesus Christ is invisible as Spirit; faith's the substantiatin o' things unseen.
Thanx

 

[ProfLogic]

Why do "Christian" archaeologists try and prove to some with evidence which can be seen? How does this help? it doesn't!

Your right no one would ever believe them in the first place but fellow christians of the same faith. One question comes to mind, if they are so into their faith, why even try to prove the facts, it seems like there are 2 possibilities, they themselves doubt their faith or they want to prove their faith for themselves and others.

 

[Phil]

Faith is a gift of God. Not all receive it.

 

[michel]

I watch the Discovery channel oftentimes and the History channel. There are documentaries where "Christian" archaeologists try and find "proof" of Noahs ark, the ark of the convenant, the tomb where Jesus was buried, etc. How is this beneficial? I mean, isn't one of the essential foundations of Christianity "faith"? The bible defines faith as:

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Further it states:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I personally am now somehwat convinced by reading. But If someone can prove to an athiest that Jesus was a genuine historical person, worked miracles, was crucified and rose from the dead, how would this atheist be saved? Since it is by "faith" a person is saved according to Christianity. He (the atheist) no longer has faith since he has seen all the evidence necesarry for him to believe, therefore faith is null and void.

Hi Genna,

Firstly you are mixing up Faith with Religion; although the two (IMO) need not go in tandem, for most vChristians, they do.

That means that you (for example), would read the Bible, accept that it truly represents 'The word of God', and you would have faith, from having read the Bible, of the existance of God...and of Jesus Christ's life, and the purpose for it.

The whole point is that no one will ever be able to prove a)That there is a God, b) That Jesus Christ lived.

An atheist will (quite understandably) as for proof; well, there isn't any - and that is where the 'faith' ingredient comes into play.

As far as I am concerned, my Faith is as a result of my certainty that there is a God, and that his son died on the cross for our sakes; with me that didn't come from reading the bible, but from purely "my relationship" with Christ.

I think it sad, (but normal) that people should be fixated with

the idea that they try and find "proof" of Noahs ark, the ark of the convenant, the tomb where Jesus was buried, etc.

You ask "How is this beneficial? " I honestly don't know; maybe it is beneficial in satisfying man's curiosity, maybe the Christian archeologists even hope that they can provide proof that atheists will accept about the life of Christ.

If I, as a Christian, were shown proof of all the things you mentioned are being looked for, it would make no difference to me at all, because I don't need that proof.

But, for sake of argument, some proof was found, and an atheist was to say "O.K, I will believe in God" he would be being superficial - not a true believer. So, I guess you are right, one does need Faith.

 

[sojourner]

Your right no one would ever believe them in the first place but fellow christians of the same faith. One question comes to mind, if they are so into their faith, why even try to prove the facts, it seems like there are 2 possibilities, they themselves doubt their faith or they want to prove their faith for themselves and others.

Or...maybe the impetus of these archaeological searches isn't for proof, but a way for we physical beings to be able to touch and see, in a physical way, the things in which we have believed for so long. I can love my mother and believe that she loves me, but it's still good to be near her, and be able to kiss her and talk to her.

 

[lunamoth]

Or...maybe the impetus of these archaeological searches isn't for proof, but a way for we physical beings to be able to touch and see, in a physical way, the things in which we have believed for so long. I can love my mother and believe that she loves me, but it's still good to be near her, and be able to kiss her and talk to her.

A very sensitive understanding! Thank you for this gift!

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I watch the Discovery channel oftentimes and the History channel. There are documentaries where "Christian" archaeologists try and find "proof" of Noahs ark, the ark of the convenant, the tomb where Jesus was buried, etc. How is this beneficial? I mean, isn't one of the essential foundations of Christianity "faith"? The bible defines faith as:

Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Further it states:

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

I personally am now somehwat convinced by reading. But If someone can prove to an athiest that Jesus was a genuine historical person, worked miracles, was crucified and rose from the dead, how would this atheist be saved? Since it is by "faith" a person is saved according to Christianity. He (the atheist) no longer has faith since he has seen all the evidence necesarry for him to believe, therefore faith is null and void.

The apostles, who knew Jesus personally, were they, then, not saved by faith?

 

[sojourner]

The apostles, who knew Jesus personally, were they, then, not saved by faith?

GOOD point!

 

[Phil]

Faith is a gift of God. He is working all things after the counsel of His own will.

Ezek 36:26-27 (Thus saith the Lord)
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[Phil]

It all comes from God. Why thank Him if He didn't didn't cause it to happen in you?

Rom 6:17-18
17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

It is important to remember that we are not saved directly by our faith but by the faith of Christ.