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Featured Faith

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Earthling, Jun 9, 2018.

  1. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    OK , then. Let's start with faith. I'd like to point out something that often bothers me about the skeptical's take on faith. it's rather insulting to a believer. Faith isn't blind, it's something that is built up through knowledge. Its like the faith one establishes over time in a relationship, with a friend or spouse, for example. You build trust in someone by getting to know them. Because they give you no reason to feel otherwise.

    Test even the inspired expression. (Acts 17:11 / 1 John 4:1-3 / 2 Thessalonians 2:2)
     
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  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Faith is defined by the Bible, not the skeptic.
    Hebrews 11:1: "Now faith (pi'stis) is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen."

    The conviction of things not seen... right? If you can't see something then you are pretty much blind to it.
     
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  3. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Faith is trust. When you trust, you have no knowledge whether everything would go well (blind/ignorant). Unless you are taking trust for granted, trust is blind by definition. Making statements of cetainty excludes you having faith. You become god. Thats blind faith (redundant.) Thats faith.

    The problem is How the accusation is used on believers. Yes, you guys have blind faith (trust) but you guys have reasonable means to put your trust in your god. Thats the difference between faith and ignorance.

    Its context not content. Faith and trust sounds better. It is blind faith. Just kinda redundent in saying so.
     
  4. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    If I say to you, "Trust me," when you do not know me, how can you have trust in me? If I say to you, "Trust me," and you know me and I haven't done anything to have broken that trust, then you can trust me.
     
    #4 Earthling, Jun 9, 2018
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  5. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Excellent! Hebrews 11:1 is the perfect definition. You're headed in the right direction. If I say something will be that hasn't yet happened, that you can't immediately see, and I haven't given you reason to doubt it, then your faith isn't blind, you can see it happening. But if I've deceived you or have been wrong in the past, your faith in what I say isn't established.

    OK. Chapter 11 of Hebrews is sort of the chapter of faith. Why was Abel's faith greater than Cain's, as evidence through their sacrifices? Genesis 4:2-7? Because Abel chose the finest, or first-lings of his flock while Cain just looked around on the ground for the rotten fruit that had already fallen off the tree.
     
    #5 Earthling, Jun 9, 2018
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  6. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Faith is how we walk.
     
  7. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    How so?
     
  8. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    But you learn to have faith in things not yet seen because you had faith before and it was answered. So faith is answered and built up.
     
  9. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    You are being rather one-sided on what bothers you. I believe in God, but sincerely question your justification for being offended.

    I actually side with the atheist skeptic in this case. The degree whether your faith is 'blind' depends on your perspective on the possibility of different choices. You are not off to a good start.
     
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  10. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Faith is the impetus for our movement. Faith is the control of our environ. I move my arm by faith. I walk by faith. "Truly I tell you, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, ‘Go, throw yourself into the sea,’ and it will be done." - Matthew 21
     
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  11. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Whem you trust someone, you put in a leap of faith that whatever that person will provide you will have faith that person would provide it. Having certainty is not trust nor faith.

    Since I dont know you, I put my trust/faith whatever you say you will do you will do. If I said I knew you, Id be "playing god." Faith isnt like that. By definition, it is blind.

    If I knew you, you wouldnt need faith. Id ready know you are trust worthy, so I dont need faith; I know. To me, thats playing god. Do you know all about god just because you believe in him?

    Thats why faith is blind. You dont know god well enough to say what he will and will not do for you. You are going off a promise. That takes a leap of faith. By definition, it is blind.

    Its not the definition. Some non-believers use it negatively as if because you have trust/bline faith, you are ignorant. Unless you are god, what type of faith is equal to certainty god's promise will be fulfilled?

    Or do you have faith god's promise is true or do you know it is?
     
  12. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue The gentle embrace of twilight has become my guide

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    You would have to concede that faith is provisional at best.
     
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  13. WalterTrull

    WalterTrull Godfella

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    Nah. Then it's not faith. You know. I think we probably should have different words. My word means the impetus for the mountain to jump into the sea. Also, that which allows me to walk. Hmmm.... I have to think about degree.
     
  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    So do you have faith that your bible tells the truth
    and there really- really was a noahs ark? That
    should settle whether you do blind faith.
     
  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    Well, if someone hasfaith in the "flood" story they are ignorant,
    or worse-so what do they expect people to say if theybring it up?

    If the flood is "god's word" then god's word is nothing.

    Perhaps those of a more enlightened sort have faith based
    on something real.
     
  16. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, because you know. You have certain knowledge. Nothing could possibly escape your expanded mind's grasp. :rolleyes:
     
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    Faith in a belief isnt wrong or anything unless its hurting people. One person's ignorance is another persons wisdom.

    If someone haa faith in the flood, they arent ignorant. Their faith is whats important. Regardless the facts, someone with faith can pretty much make anything a means of importance to them even though it makes no sense to others.

    We dont need to find meaning only in what another person says is not real but to us it is. I saw a quote that read: "Do. Whatever. The F*. You want." It doesnt need justification. I find it easier to understand believers more individually. Individual belief varies even if they look the same in a group.
     
  18. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
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    And yet you place your trust in the place that you work at not knowing what their bank balance is.
     
  19. Earthling

    Earthling David Henson

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    Yes, well I, uh . . . Very clever. A little skeptic's humor at my expense?

    Actually I don't. Let's say I read a respected scholar's interpretation of the soul a s being immortal and then I read Ezekiel 18:4 in KJV. The soul dies. So I think to myself, hmmm . . . and I look at it according to some other translation, where it says the life, instead of the soul dies. Well then I have to balance that out. I do some research on the soul, according to the Bible, find out it's pretty well documented that the immortal soul concept comes from Greek philosophy which began to influence Jewish thinking about the time of Alexander The Great's being welcomed to the temple in Jerusalem in 332 B.C.E. and then was later adopted by Christianity, as taught by Plato, a student of Socrates. Something like that.

    I can read something in the Bible, misinterpret it, happen upon the wrong sources, it could be spurious, for example. Jesus saying who is without sin cast the first stone . . . never happened. It didn't appear in earlier manuscripts.
     
  20. MonkeyFire

    MonkeyFire Well-Known Member

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    Skepticism is no more part of science than faith is.
     
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