Fairtrade

[Yerda]

Is it a moral choice?

 

[Sunstone]

To the extent that fair trade farmers are less exploited than farmers under the traditional system, it seems to me a moral choice to buy fair trade.

 

[Valjean]

Agreed

 

[SageTree]

fair trade farmers are less exploited than...

Still not the best we can do... this is what bothers me about it still.

They charge A LOT more for the product than the traditional system....
And they brag about paying a few more quarters to the farmers...

Oooooook 0_o

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

To the extent that fair trade farmers are less exploited than farmers under the traditional system, it seems to me a moral choice to buy fair trade.

I think that paying a fair price for a product is a necessary step to ensure fair practices, but it's not the whole story by itself.

One of my friends spent some time in Guatemala (as a missionary, which is a whole other thing... but regardless, he got a good chance to go around the area he was in, see what was going on and talk to people), and what he found there was that coffee being "fair trade" affected how much the farm owner was paid for his product, but didn't have a whole lot of bearing on the working conditions for the pickers on the farms.

Also, for products like coffee, I think it's worth remembering that certifications like "fair trade" and "organic" have costs associated with them that the smaller producers can't necessarily afford, even if they conduct their business ethically.

 

[Shermana]

Still not the best we can do... this is what bothers me about it still.

They charge A LOT more for the product than the traditional system....
And they brag about paying a few more quarters to the farmers...

Oooooook 0_o

Yep, I'd like to see just how much more they actually give the farmers to call it "fair trade", any reliable info? It seems the whole deal may be a bit shady.

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Is it a moral choice?

We all must admit the developed nations wealth is built on standing on the neck of the poor. I can drink as much coffee as I want because the growers and workers are not payed a living wage. There are problems with free trade still it is the best option I have in buying goods from poor countries.

 

[Shermana]

Quite a few links I've found showing that this Fair Trade business is one big fraud. I kind of felt like there was something wrong with it since I first heard about it.

The "Fair Trade" Scam | No Left Turns
Big Surprise: Fair Trade Coffee is a Scam
Kids Prefer Cheese: Fair Trade Revealed As Feel-Good Hoax
http://theviewfromcullingworth.blogspot.com/2011/05/is-fair-trade-scam.html

The study, which followed hundreds of Nicaraguan coffee farmers over a decade, concluded that farmers producing for the fair-trade market "are more often found below the absolute poverty line than conventional producers.

"Over a period of 10 years, our analysis shows that organic and organic-fair trade farmers have become poorer relative to conventional producers."

Now why would fair trade producers be poorer than the rest?

The author sets out why he thinks this is the case explaining that the poorest farmers simply can't afford the certification fees and how many see co-operatives (a requirement of fair trade) as taking away property from the farmer. However, it was the degree of corruption and the way in which the fair trade companies manage supply so as to keep fair trade margins higher that was most striking:

In fact, at Green Beanery we have received bags of coffee, some labelled fair trade, some not, grown on the very same farm and identical in every respect. The fair-trade certified farmer himself can't tell which beans will be sold as fair trade and which not -that decision is made by the higher-ups.

Because the fair-trade associations are intent on keeping the price of fair-trade coffee up, they limit the supply of coffee that can be labelled as certified. To the certified farmer's chagrin, most of his fair-trade certified crop could end up being sold as uncertified conventional coffee.

And in this well-intentioned pricefixing game, the fair-trade farmer is the pawn and the joke is on the customer.​

Amazon.com: The Fair Trade Fraud (9780312061937): James Bovard: Books

Requiring the farm to be a "Co-op" may be some kind of lefty gimmickery at best.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800911000127

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Quite a few links I've found showing that this Fair Trade business is one big fraud. I kind of felt like there was something wrong with it since I first heard about it.

The "Fair Trade" Scam | No Left Turns
Big Surprise: Fair Trade Coffee is a Scam
Kids Prefer Cheese: Fair Trade Revealed As Feel-Good Hoax
The View from Cullingworth: Is fair trade a scam?
Now why would fair trade producers be poorer than the rest?

Some of these sites seem to be right wing sites. This is a (what I believe to be to be) balenced view from the BBC it gives both sides.

BBC News - Fairtrade Foundation 'making all the difference' to farmers

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

Requiring the farm to be a "Co-op" may be some kind of lefty gimmickery at best.

Sometimes the lefty gimmickry stuff works better then business as usual and this is one of those cases. Maybe it is not perfect. It has its problems. Still it is somewhat better then the present system.

The Righty exploitation and free market at all costs is the biggest cause of human suffering in the world today.

 

[Shermana]

Some of these sites seem to be right wing sites. This is a (what I believe to be to be) balenced view from the BBC

BBC News - Fairtrade Foundation 'making all the difference' to farmers

And BBC is accused of being a left wing site, I don't think it matters when you actually look at the facts from the actual study itself (see last link I posted).

This should be telltale right here:

However the movement is not without critics and the free market think tank, the Legatum Institute said the scheme is very expensive for farmers to join, so those who might benefit most are excluded.
The executive director of the Fairtrade Foundation, Harriet Lamb, refuted that criticism saying fairtrade "makes all the difference" to farmers.

So the response to a legitimate concern that it's very pricey for farmers to join is: "It makes all the difference". Does anyone NOT see something wrong there?

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

And BBC is accused of being a left wing site,

I have only heard that from the right wing. I have watch it and can tell you thats it coverage tends to be better then American TV.

This should be telltale right here:
So the response to a legitimate concern that it's very pricey for farmers to join is: "It makes all the difference".

Fair trade has some problems, many problems, but when it is compared with business as usual. Fair trade it is better then that. That is a given. If only 5% of the higher costs goes to the farmers I am willing to do that.(I believe it works better then that) In many places in the world it has made a difference and that has been documented.

Does anyone NOT see something wrong there?

From reading your posts, you see the world in a much different way then I do.