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Evolution: Non-Theists' Holy Grail?
- Thread starter TashaN
- Start date
The reason why i have been ignoring evolution and not researching about it seriously is because it was being abused by many famous atheists to disprove the existence of God although evolution is just a scientific theory just like any other one. That prevented me to look into it in the past. I think it's the same when some extremists in any religion discourage you from seeing their faith in a positive manner.
Completely false.True or false?
Actually, TashaN:
1. Evolution is as demonstrated and as unquestionable as one could ever expect of anything in science. Being "just a Theory" is science's equivalent to "just being" a Prime Minister or something.
2. Evolution is all but completely unsuitable and completely unnecessary for anti-theism and atheism. We have far better tools for our arguments.
3. The whole idea that Evolution is somehow important for us stinking kafirs is a fabrication, or at least a biased perception. Evolution is both far bigger than Creationism and far smaller than atheism and anti-theism.
Personally, I think it does not count at all. The supposed "controversy" does not even exist as such. It is just noise with no content.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber
I would hope not, because to do so is to completely misunderstand the theory. And because it has widespread acceptance across many different religions, except here in America (and Turkey last I knew), it would be folly to try and even use evolution to disprove theism. It directly contradicts some religious beliefs, but evolution is even easily assimilated into the creation story of Genesis, so long as one does not assume a day is our own 24-hour day (which such an interpretation has its own problems), and sees that this leads to a gradual appearance of different species over time. It doesn't give the same "time of appearance" as the fossil record, but Darwin didn't even get all the specifics right.
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
It has nothing to do with being an atheist since you can be a theist and hold and understanding of evolution.
When I was a Muslim many Muslims Used Surat Nuh(Noah) ayat 14 to provide scriptural basis for evolution.
71:14 : "While He has created you in stages?"
Evolution just tackles one claim by theist which is, "how did we get here" but even that fails. Evolution does not require a god and no evidence exists that says a god guided it and it is mentioned in no scripture. Some religions are just lucky and capable of distorting a verse to include evolution, that is it.
When I was a Muslim many Muslims Used Surat Nuh(Noah) ayat 14 to provide scriptural basis for evolution.
71:14 : "While He has created you in stages?"
Evolution just tackles one claim by theist which is, "how did we get here" but even that fails. Evolution does not require a god and no evidence exists that says a god guided it and it is mentioned in no scripture. Some religions are just lucky and capable of distorting a verse to include evolution, that is it.
Skwim
Veteran Member
First of all, evolution is not a theory, but a fact. The theory part comes in, in explaining how it works. And how would you know if atheists are abusing evolution if you don't understand it? Moreover, I don't know of a single person, atheist or otherwise, who has ever used it to disprove the existence of God . And if you knew enough about evolution you'd also know that evolution doesn't lend itself to such an enterprise. Believing that evolution could be used to disprove the existence of God is no more reasonable than believing French cooking could. Of course, if you're an absolute twit you could try to do so, but we don't pay any attention to twits . . . . . do we. . . . . . Do we?
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ha ha. I came in peace guys just to have a nice chat. I'm not here to debate. Just wanted to share what was discouraging me from studying it in depth. I think i was paying more attention to the atheists who were using it to disprove God than those who were taking it as nothing but what is really is, science.
Skwim
Veteran Member
If atheists or anyone else is using evolution to disprove anything it would most likely be creationism, not god.
I can perfectly understand why you might not want to research it, as faith is very personal. So an attack on god feels like an attack on your own beliefs and yourself. And that's perfectly understandable. Atheists can often miss this side of religion and focus on reason and science, whilst ignoring the very human aspect of belief.
However, the theory of evolution does not 'prove' that god does not exist. The validity of evolution over-takes the biblical of creation in genesis. It does not entirely rule of out the possibility of a creator- only a specific version of religion ideas set out in the bible. Scientifically, it remains a theory as all science has some degree of uncertainty- but it is the best one we have to explaining the "origin of species" and the development of life on the planet. Science is based on evidence, is (arguably) a better guide to understanding the natural world than religion, although admittedly they still get it wrong and have hoaxes.
Scientific theories often have theological interpretations, and unless you rule out the "god of the gaps" theory (using god to explain what we don't know), it is more than possible to reconcile scientific knowledge with faith in a god. The Big Bang still has the potential to be seen in theological terms because scientists haven't figured out what caused it. Science may ultimately prove to undermine religious faith in the long-run because it explains things in naturalistic terms- but Atheism is still basically a philosophical position, that can be substantiated by the weight of scientific evidence, but not proven by science alone.
Jumi
Well-Known Member
I think it's good to ask questions that help us understand each other.
The only time evolution could be seen as an argument against God or Gods is when the religious position is that inane Creationism. or "Intelligent" Design.
You may not like Richard Dawkins & his views, but I think this would be an extremely enlightening video for you;
He's discussing evolution with Jesuit Priest George Coyne. I think this will help you greatly in understanding why evolution & faith don't have to be mutually exclusive.
It's Biblical literalism that evolution is an adversary to.
That isn't what evolution covers. Evolution is about how life changes, not how it first came to be.
That was a cool video. Thank you.
EDIT: just now i noticed it's a long one and i'm still watching it.
I faced the same issue when i was under the impression that evolution was against the Quran but after studying more about evolution and understanding many aspects of it i couldn't see anything in the Quran which goes against it.
True. Anyone or any theory is trying to find out about the origin of life? I would be interested to know more about it.
Most categorically not. Nor can I even imagine it ever managing to.
I have on occasion seen arguments such as how unlikely it is for an intelligent designer to plan our digestive entry and our breathing entry to share the same place (the mouth and throath), but quite frankly that is more for effect than anything. As arguments go, it would be non-conclusive at the most. And you are not even asking about that, but about a far more difficult claim to disprove.
Far as I know, the idea that evolution is a fact but life itself was created by God anyway is completely non-contradictory, pretty much impossible to ever be disproven by science (and certainly not by Evolution itself), and I believe it is even quietly taken to be true by many or even most theists all around the world. It is both a position of faith and rock-solid.