Evidence for a god existing or not existing

[loverofhumanity]

Been there, done that, got taken in (well, I was a young teenager at the time) learnt to think critically, saw the contradictions, saw how I'd been emotionally taken in, got better.

When I was indoctrinated into a faith. Then I became an atheist and began critical thinking but after independently investigating found God. I found both critical thinking and indoctrination to lead me away from the truth. Now I know of myself, by myself, within myself that God is.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Until you actually have the courage to question it and think about it critically. That was my experience. This is the problem with just going on your own subjective experiences, they can very easily be wrong.

I did just that for many years and that’s how I found God by questioning endlessly. Now I know.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Self knowing does not require proof or any explanation to others. I know God exists because I see him as clearly as one sees the sun with their outward eyes. But those who cannot see the sun does not change or alter the fact the sun exists, only that their eyesight or inner sight is impaired with regards to seeing God.

I see that you still don't understand the word know and how it puts a burden of proof on you

It is an inward spiritual discovery which involves spiritual insight not the outward senses.

Hmm, sounds like a mere belief to me.

I have all the proof and evidence for myself. I don’t need others to verify or vindicate what I know. It’s as clear as the sun at midday to me but you will have to travel your own journey. I cannot find God for you.

So mere belief. No knowledge at all.

Think of how unconvinced you would be if I used the same sort of logic to claim that I know there is no god.

 

[Subduction Zone]

When I was indoctrinated into a faith. Then I became an atheist and began critical thinking but after independently investigating found God. I found both critical thinking and indoctrination to lead me away from the truth. Now I know of myself, by myself, within myself that God is.

If you had used critical thinking you could support your claims. You have refuted that claim of yours today.

 

[ratiocinator]

When I was indoctrinated into a faith. Then I became an atheist and began critical thinking but after independently investigating found God.

This makes no sense at all. How did you independently investigate? If you're claiming critical thinking, then you'd be able to present some, which you obviously can't. How certain were you when you were 'indoctrinated'?

 

[loverofhumanity]

I see that you still don't understand the word know and how it puts a burden of proof on you





Hmm, sounds like a mere belief to me.



So mere belief. No knowledge at all.

Think of how unconvinced you would be if I used the same sort of logic to claim that I know there is no god.

Each person in life is on their own journey. I cannot ‘know God’ for you. My investigation pertains to myself. If you have come to the conclusion God does or does not exist I cannot know from your knowledge and investigation, only from my own knowledge.

In that respect if you have not yet found God exists you should be happy with that and just feel pity and sorrow for me while at the same time I rejoice at having reached the acme of true knowledge and the furthermost summit of learning.

God is not a belief but a relationship and experience. Finding God does not happen through reading books or critical thinking but putting aside all of ones and others opinions and having a pure heart. When one is worthy then the truth will be made clear.

 

[loverofhumanity]

If you had used critical thinking you could support your claims. You have refuted that claim of yours today.

Only when my heart became cleansed then did I behold the truth. The pure in heart all know and see God.

 

[loverofhumanity]

This makes no sense at all. How did you independently investigate? If you're claiming critical thinking, then you'd be able to present some, which you obviously can't. How certain were you when you were 'indoctrinated'?

When I was a child I was taught. I knew no better. As I grew I questioned. As an atheist I questioned very deeply. I found out I was wrong and gladly admitted to let go of my ego and self opinionated ness and found God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Each person in life is on their own journey. I cannot ‘know God’ for you. My investigation pertains to myself. If you have come to the conclusion God does or does not exist I cannot know from your knowledge and investigation, only from my own knowledge.

In that respect if you have not yet found God exists you should be happy with that and just feel pity and sorrow for me while at the same time I rejoice at having reached the acme of true knowledge and the furthermost summit of learning.

God is not a belief but a relationship and experience. Finding God does not happen through reading books or critical thinking but putting aside all of ones and others opinions and having a pure heart. When one is worthy then the truth will be made clear.

You cannot even know god for yourself apparently. You keep demonstrating that all you have is mere belief.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Only when my heart became cleansed then did I behold the truth. The pure in heart all know and see God.

So NOT critical thinking then.

 

[loverofhumanity]

You cannot even know god for yourself apparently. You keep demonstrating that all you have is mere belief.

That’s just your opinion. You are not me and cannot know that.

 

[ratiocinator]

When I was a child I was taught. I knew no better. As I grew I questioned. As an atheist I questioned very deeply. I found out I was wrong and gladly admitted to let go of my ego and self opinionated ness and found God.

So no critical thinking. This is a good demonstration of the problems of just relying on the subjective. I wasn't indoctrinated as a child, I was exposed to a faith as a young teenager and from that time, for several years afterwards, I would have claimed just as much certainty as you have (and would have made more of an effort to justify it, actually). There are also plenty of people in the world who are just as convinced as you but who believe in different a different god or god(s). Whatever god(s) you believe in, most people think you are wrong. It follows directly that at least most people are wrong about their faith.

No matter how convinced you are, unless you have something objective to offer, it's just a belief and you could be wrong.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So no critical thinking. This is a good demonstration of the problems of just relying on the subjective. I wasn't indoctrinated as a child, I was exposed to a faith as a young teenager and from that time, for several years afterwards, I would have claimed just as much certainty as you have (and would have made more of an effort to justify it, actually). There are also plenty of people in the world who are just as convinced as you but who believe in different a different god or god(s). Whatever god(s) you believe in, most people think you are wrong. It follows directly that at least most people are wrong about their faith.

No matter how convinced you are, unless you have something objective to offer, it's just a belief and you could be wrong.

Of course there was in depth critical thinking but human reasoning is imperfect and cannot embrace perfection. Only the inner spirit cleansed of worldliness and a pure heart can see God not the human mind.

 

[ratiocinator]

Of course there was in depth critical thinking but human reasoning is imperfect and cannot embrace perfection. Only the inner spirit cleansed of worldliness and a pure heart can see God not the human mind.

Which is basically saying that faith is irrational. If there is no evidence and no reasoning, then anybody can think they have cleansed themselves of worldliness and have a pure heart and make up anything they want to believe. No evidence and no reasoning is identical to just having a belief, rather than knowledge.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Which is basically saying that faith is irrational. If there is no evidence and no reasoning, then anybody can think they have cleansed themselves of worldliness and have a pure heart and make up anything they want to believe. No evidence and no reasoning is identical to just having a belief, rather than knowledge.

I have facts without evidence. I know right! Life is funny ain’t it?

 

[Vinayaka]

No matter how convinced you are, unless you have something objective to offer, it's just a belief and you could be wrong.

People with entrenched, hard wired belief feel that it is fact, and no amount of dictionary definition, logical explaining, groaning, yelling, organized debate, or congruent argument will ever change that. You can't uproot a tree by staring at it. At some point you just have to walk away, realising your efforts are futile.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Which is basically saying that faith is irrational. If there is no evidence and no reasoning, then anybody can think they have cleansed themselves of worldliness and have a pure heart and make up anything they want to believe. No evidence and no reasoning is identical to just having a belief, rather than knowledge.

We are speaking about God. God cannot be contained by the human mind. Only through inner spiritual perception can we know God. The painting can never understand the painter yet it is proof the painter exists.

 

[King Phenomenon]

People with entrenched, hard wired belief feel that it is fact, and no amount of dictionary definition, logical explaining, groaning, yelling, organized debate, or congruent argument will ever change that. You can't uproot a tree by staring at it. At some point you just have to walk away, realising your efforts are futile.

Yes, asking for ‘EVIDENCE’ when all theists and non theists know there is none is ridiculous and a waste of time.

 

[ratiocinator]

We are speaking about God. God cannot be contained by the human mind. Only through inner spiritual perception can we know God. The painting can never understand the painter yet it is proof the painter exists.

Which is just another expression of evidence- and reasoning-free belief. As I said, if I claim that I have "inner spiritual perception" too and it sees no god or a totally different one (and there are people who'd tell you that), then one of us must be wrong. As I said, out in the real world, at the very least most people who believe by faith and "inner spiritual perception" alone (without evidence) are wrong.

 

[King Phenomenon]

Which is just another expression of evidence- and reasoning-free belief. As I said, if I claim that I have "inner spiritual perception" too and it sees no god or a totally different one (and there are people who'd tell you that), then one of us must be wrong. As I said, out in the real world, at the very least most people who believe by faith and "inner spiritual perception" alone (without evidence) are wrong.

Don’t tell people they’re wrong.
Bad idea