Even if you removed Islam, Judaism, and Christianity you'd still have fanaticism

[Spiderman]

Do you know Arabic very well?

No

 

[Britedream]

No

The Quran is only in Arabic, so you didn’t read the Quran twice.

 

[Spiderman]

The Quran is only in Arabic, so you didn’t read the Quran twice.

No, that's ridiculous.

Arabic can be translated into other languages.

To say, The Bible was written in Greek and Hebrew, therefore those who don't know Greek and Hebrew have never read the Bible is Preposterous.

When the Qur'an says certain non-muslims should be killed, maimed, crucified, and their hands and feet chopped off, I highly doubt that in Arabic it says something that isn't about killing people, crucifying them, torturing them, and chopping off hands and feet, even if the meaning is slightly changed.

 

[Britedream]

No, that's ridiculous.

Arabic can be translated into other languages.

To say, The Bible was written in Greek and Hebrew, therefore those who don't know Greek and Hebrew have never read the Bible is Preposterous.

When the Qur'an says certain non-muslims should be killed, maimed, crucified, and their hands and feet chopped off, I highly doubt that in Arabic it says something that isn't about killing people, crucifying them, torturing them, and chopping off hands and feet, even if the meaning is slightly changed.

Not so, I can understand your position trying to support your opinion, I am afraid you are wrong, you can’t get the right meaning by just merely translating words. Please allow me to prove you wrong. Please go ahead and translate Ayeh 17 from surah 7; it is a clear Ayeh, and I will show you how wrongful you are.

 

[Spiderman]

Not so, I can understand your position trying to support your opinion, I am afraid you are wrong, you can’t get the right meaning by just merely translating words. Please allow me to prove you wrong. Please go ahead and translate Ayeh 17 from surah 7; it is a clear Ayeh, and I will show you how wrongful you are.

So, what you are saying is that the muslims who dont know Arabic, have never read the Qu'ran, and the Christians who don't know Greek or Hebrew, have never read the Bible.

I just highly doubt that a book is translated into English and suddenly there is a bunch of bigotry, torture, mutilation, hate, and calls to violence that weren't there in Arabic. Yeah right!

 

[Shad]

So, what you are saying is that the muslims who dont know Arabic, have never read the Qu'ran, and the Christians who don't know Greek or Hebrew, have never read the Bible.

I just highly doubt that a book is translated into English and suddenly there is a bunch of bigotry, torture, mutilation, hate, and calls to violence that weren't there in Arabic. Yeah right!

No its just an silly argument to shut down criticism. You must know Arabic to criticize the Quran.... Yet that requirement does not exist when converting or saying something positive.

 

[Britedream]

So, what you are saying is that the muslims who dont know Arabic, have never read the Qu'ran, and the Christians who don't know Greek or Hebrew, have never read the Bible.

I just highly doubt that a book is translated into English and suddenly there is a bunch of bigotry, torture, mutilation, hate, and calls to violence that weren't there in Arabic. Yeah right!

Let us take things one at a time, I have asked you to post the translation of Ayeh 17 of Sura 7; which you claimed that you have read twice, And we will go from there.

 

[Spiderman]

Let us take things one at a time, I have asked you to post the translation of Ayeh 17 of Sura 7; which you claimed that you have read twice, And we will go from there.

Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]."

 

[Britedream]

Then I will come to them from before them and from behind them and on their right and on their left, and You will not find most of them grateful [to You]."

Thank you.

The translation you posted does not carry the meaning conveyed by the Quran. In your post, the Ayeh talks about places where the satan approaches you. Front, back, left, and right.


While Quran talks about good deeds(worshiping God through partners as Satan promotes to you..etc), bad deeds(desires..etc), future(fears and hopes..etc), and past(beliefs ..etc), as various ways Satan comes through to you.


If you read in Arabic Ayeh 255 of surah 2, you will see God using exactly the same words for the furure and the past of his knowledge about his creation deeds. It clarifies the meaning intended for you.


If you read in Arabic Ayeh 27 and 41 of Sura 56, you will see God using the same words for good deeds and bad deeds. It clarifies the meaning intended for you.


Further more, the entire meaning of a sentence in Arabic can be changed by slightly changing the pronunciation of one letter in it. There are Ayat that can be pronounced in different ways, both are correct; and as you may know, you can’t translate a pronunciation.


Many Arabic words have multiple meanings, only determined by the saturation in which is used.


The sentence and how it is structured grammatically effects its meaning.


There are Arabic words that don’t have an equivalent in the English language.


So many variables that play role in the translation, make it hard to always have the correct translation, specially in Quran. This is why you see many translations.

 

[Spiderman]

Thank you.

The translation you posted does not carry the meaning conveyed by the Quran. In your post, the Ayeh talks about places where the satan approaches you. Front, back, left, and right.


While Quran talks about good deeds(worshiping God through partners as Satan promotes to you..etc), bad deeds(desires..etc), future(fears and hopes..etc), and past(beliefs ..etc), as various ways Satan comes through to you.


If you read in Arabic Ayeh 255 of surah 2, you will see God using exactly the same words for the furure and the past of his knowledge about his creation deeds. It clarifies the meaning intended for you.


If you read in Arabic Ayeh 27 and 41 of Sura 56, you will see God using the same words for good deeds and bad deeds. It clarifies the meaning intended for you.


Further more, the entire meaning of a sentence in Arabic can be changed by slightly changing the pronunciation of one letter in it. There are Ayat that can be pronounced in different ways, both are correct; and as you may know, you can’t translate a pronunciation.


Many Arabic words have multiple meanings, only determined by the saturation in which is used.


The sentence and how it is structured grammatically effects its meaning.


There are Arabic words that don’t have an equivalent in the English language.


So many variables that play role in the translation, make it hard to always have the correct translation, specially in Quran. This is why you see many translations.

I highly doubt all the calls to hatred, violence, torture, and mass-murderer are not contained in the Arabic translation.

 

[Britedream]

I highly doubt all the calls to hatred, violence, torture, and mass-murderer are not contained in the Arabic translation.

It may be only in your understanding of the Quran; Islam was an empire for centuries, they ruled part of what is called now Spain. They had the power and means to do whatever they want, yet they were a minority; they did not force anyone to abandon their belief, as a matter of fact, Jews flourished in the Golden Age under Islam rules. That couldn’t happen, if what you claimed is true about the Quran.

Here is the link if you wish to read:
http://www.lostanyaderos.com/LosTanyaderos.htm

 

[Brickjectivity]

It's part of the liberal myth of progress based on a teleological view of history, which ironically, developed from Christian thought via Enlightenment philosophy, Comte, Hegel, Marx, etc.

Humanity 'outgrows' religion as it progresses to the next stage of social evolution.

There is always an assumption among many people that if you got rid of religion then that's 'one less thing' to fight over, but a religious ideology is not removed, but replaced by a different ideology. Even with those who accept tis, there is a common assumption that religion must be replaced by 'something better', although 20th C history shows this is far from the case.

Violent ideologies have been ubiquitous throughout human history and are prone to developing and/or becoming popular in certain social conditions. Violence is part of human nature, and there is no reason to believe that will ever change.

There is also a tendency to overstate the historical effects of religion on violence. One of the main reason for this is comparing religious violence to a baseline of zero, so religious war X killed 100,000 people is compared to an assumption of zero deaths otherwise. Counterfactual histories would certainly not be peaceful though, and we can't know what would otherwise have happened.

While it is clear that some ideologies, religious or otherwise, are better for justifying violence than others removing religion X wouldn't remove the underlying causes of violence and fanaticism. It is also unknowable whether or not the various replacement ideologies adopted would prove to be better overall, and potentially could even be worse.

Nice one.

True about humans. If you got rid the Abrahamic religions you wouldn't get rid of terrorism. But I do believe that the Abrahamics lend themselves to rationalizing such things somewhat more than most other religions. You really can't hold them up Buddhism or Taoism, although both religions have their militants.

I did at first object since 'Abrahamic' and generalizing, but when people start to say things like "If its Ok with God then its Ok with me." Then yes you can wind up with immorality parading as Gods will and a refusal or fear of challenging it.

Buddhism is nice but not in the same class. Consider what becomes of it in Japan, just part of the mixture with no real change in how things work. It has a moral message but cannot be compared with a social commitment based religion. Apples and oranges. I have no doubt there are Buddhist Muslims, Buddhist Christians and Buddhist Jews. They are still Muslims, Christians and Jews.