Eternal hell or annihillation make no sense

[Ajax]

Your brain and mind.

Yes and no, but...George Paxinos the man who mapped the human brain as well as other animal brains says...
"The mind is the energy of the brain. Just as our shadow cannot force us to do something, so the mind cannot force the brain to do something it does not want to do." Again this is the consensus of the scientific community.
Do not confuse it with philosophical theories.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes and no, but...George Paxinos the man who mapped the human brain as well as other animal brains says...
"The mind is the energy of the brain. Just as our shadow cannot force us to do something, so the mind cannot force the brain to do something it does not want to do." Again this is the consensus of the scientific community.
Do not confuse it with philosophical theories.

That's very interesting. As a former student of psychology I am very interested in how the mind works, conscious and unconscious, etc.

 

[Ajax]

That's very interesting. As a former student of psychology I am very interested in how the mind works, conscious and unconscious, etc.

Yes it is... click on his name in my message..He has one of the most impressive CV's I have ever seen.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What do you mean by me, myself?

The person, of course!
Most people don't speak to brains.

????

Not meaningful .. is history a bunch of atoms, or is it more than that?

 

[Ajax]

The person, of course!
Most people don't speak to brains.

My friend I'm sorry but you sound like a primitive person...

1) Speaking. There are several areas of the brain that play a critical role in speech and language. Broca's area, located in the left hemisphere, is associated with speech production and articulation. When somebody gets a stroke, one of the commonest symptoms is that he can not speak.

2) Hearing. Your inner ear turns the sound waves into electrical signals. The auditory nerve then sends those signals to your brain. Some brain areas are then used to compare the signals coming from the two ears to figure out where the sounds came from. Other brain areas decode or process language.
https://www.ncrar.research.va.gov/Education/Documents/BrainHearing.pdf

Not meaningful .. is history a bunch of atoms, or is it more than that?

History is not a bunch of atoms. It is about trillion upon trillion of atoms

"at the most basic level, your body—and, in fact, all of life, as well as the nonliving world—is made up of atoms, often organized into larger structures called molecules....everything you are, including your consciousness, is the byproduct of chemical and electrical interactions between a very, very large number of nonliving atoms, So as an incredibly complex being made up of roughly 7,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms, you'll probably want to know some basic chemistry as you begin to explore the world of biology, and the world in general."
Matter, elements, and atoms | Chemistry of life (article) | Khan Academy

I know you will not change your mind and I don't want you to, either, but at least you will learn something.
There is no point in further discussion, unless you want to propose your own alternative theory.

 

[muhammad_isa]

My friend I'm sorry but you sound like a primitive person...

Well, at least I'm a person, and not just "a bunch of atoms".

1) Speaking. There are several areas of the brain that play a critical role...
2) Hearing. Your inner ear turns the sound waves into electrical signals...

Mmm .. there are plenty of doctors in my local hospital that know that.
They ALSO know that a human being's health is not just about physical health, but mental health too.
..and mental health can NOT be reduced to electro-chemical process.
If it could, there would be no need for psychologists.

History is not a bunch of atoms. It is about trillion upon trillion of atoms.

..and that's all? It means no more than that?

I know you will not change your mind and I don't want you to, either, but at least you will learn something.

Hopefully, you'll learn something too.

There is no point in further discussion, unless you want to propose your own alternative theory.

I have no need for theories. I do not invent my own beliefs.
I seek, consider, and make up my own mind .. as presumably you do yourself.

I know that life is not just about science.
Science is the observation of this universe.
We cannot know that is all that is.

To discover more about that topic, we need to look at other academic disciplines.

 

[Ajax]

Well, at least I'm a person, and not just "a bunch of atoms".

..and mental health can NOT be reduced to electro-chemical process.
If it could, there would be no need for psychologists.

Science is the observation of this universe.
We cannot know that is all that is.

Science is the systematic study of the structure and behaviour of the physical and natural world through observation, experimentation, and the testing of theories against the evidence obtained.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

The answer to the first question will make you VERY unhappy. In spite of what you've been told there are in fact consequences for the decisions you make. You want to do whatever you like and expect that everyone will accept it. That's not how it works with God but he gave you free will. You can choose him if you can not choose him. He doesnt force anything on you but choices have consequences. If you have torment that never ever ends that's YOUR choice not God's choice.

No, that's entirely your god's choice (well, according to doctrine).

Even in discussion the actions of a god, there is something to be said for proportionate response, and saying "Oh well he's god, he can do whatever he wants" does not make it better, nor does it make him a good deity.

If your child disobeys you and "steals" a cookie when they're 4, is it then just and good for you to beat them mercilessly for it for the rest of their life and beyond?

 

[Ignatius A]

No, that's entirely your god's choice (well, according to doctrine).

Even in discussion the actions of a god, there is something to be said for proportionate response, and saying "Oh well he's god, he can do whatever he wants" does not make it better, nor does it make him a good deity.

If your child disobeys you and "steals" a cookie when they're 4, is it then just and good for you to beat them mercilessly for it for the rest of their life and beyond?

Judge God by your standards. I wish you all the best with that

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Judge God by your standards. I wish you all the best with that

Cool, but that doesn't answer the question posed to you.

 

[muhammad_isa]

No, that's entirely your god's choice (well, according to doctrine).

..and what is the purpose of "the doctrine", do you think?

Do you think, perhaps, that it is designed to improve our lives, and save us from "ourselves" ?

 

[URAVIP2ME]

6 But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the dead I am called in question.
7 And when he had so said, there arose a dissension between the Pharisees and the Sadducees: and the multitude was divided.
8 For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, neither angel, nor spirit: but the Pharisees confess both.
9 And there arose a great cry: and the scribes that were of the Pharisees' part arose, and strove, saying, We find no evil in this man: but if a spirit or an angel hath spoken to him, let us not fight against God.
- Acts 23 KJV -
..so, how can a "rotted corpse" represent a person, if not by the soul?

The Sadducees only accepted the first 5 Bible books (Pentateuch) and also they rejected the 'oral' (Not written) tradition or customs (Matt.15:9) of the Pharisees.
So, both the Sadducees and Pharisees were Not in harmony with Jesus' teachings - Matthew 23:24
God resurrected Jesus back to his previous pre-human heavenly spirit person. 1st Peter 3:18 B ( alive in the spirit )
So, as far as a 'rotted corpse' does Not represent the living person himself, and as Ezekiel 18:4,20 says 'the soul that sins dies'.
Thus, the soul or person dies and can only live again if resurrected - Acts 24:15
Some persons resurrected to spirit life to rule with Jesus in Heaven - see Revelation 20:6; 5:9-10; 2:10.
The majority of people can become part of the humble meek people who will inherit the Earth as Jesus promised at Matt. 5:5 from Psalms 37:9-11; 22:26.
to live forever (everlasting life) on a beautiful paradisical Earth as described in the 35th chapter of Isaiah.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

..and what is the purpose of "the doctrine", do you think?

Do you think, perhaps, that it is designed to improve our lives, and save us from "ourselves" ?

Oh isa. Some things never change. That's completely irrelevant to the issue of an unjustice, disproportionate punishment.

 

[muhammad_isa]

That's completely irrelevant to the issue of an unjustice, disproportionate punishment.

Well, I don't believe that our future suffering will be "disproportionate" to what others might be suffering right now.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Well, I don't believe that our future suffering will be "disproportionate" to what others might be suffering right now.

Do you believe in eternal torment in Hell?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Do you believe in eternal torment in Hell?

It is taught in the Bible and Qur'an, so yes.
..but the concept of "eternal", for me, is a very, very long time.

..and what's more, I believe in a Merciful G-d, and only the most wicked people will end up
in that position, and any soul with a microgram of decency will escape.

 

[Ajax]

Do you believe in eternal torment in Hell?

When your brain is dead and dust you will not feel anything.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

It is taught in the Bible and Qur'an, so yes.
..but the concept of "eternal", for me, is a very, very long time.

Well how you take the word and what the word actually means are not the same; eternal is eternity. Forever. Without end. Infinite.

And even for the most wicked, an eternal torment for a finite crime is ridiculous.

When your brain is dead and dust you will not feel anything.

Do you believe in an eternal torment in Hell?

 

[muhammad_isa]

Well how you take the word and what the word actually means are not the same; eternal is eternity. Forever. Without end. Infinite.

Yes, I know the literal meaning .. but do we always have to read Bible verses literally?

I think it easy to have mistaken beliefs, by doing that.
One should not take verses out of context, or an isolated verse here and there.
One needs to understand the whole.

In any case, if we DO take it literally i.e. forever & ever,
it is NOT that G-d is a person, who tortures people .. that is anthromophism i.e. imagining God as a person like you or me

No .. the concept of "God punishing" is one of consequence .. the consequences of our own deeds.
It is a warning, that is, if we don't take care, and selfishly oppress others, the consequences are not good for us in the long run.
That is, we wrong our own souls.

And even for the most wicked, an eternal torment for a finite crime is ridiculous.

It is, isn't it?
It makes me wonder why some people are so hell-bent on ending up there.
People may laugh now .. but it's not funny.

The thing is, a soul is a living thing .. we can nurture it, or we can have no respect for it.
It's like a deep pit .. easy to fall in, but not easy AT ALL to get out.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

...the concept of "God punishing" is one of consequence .. the consequences of our own deeds.

Finite crimes call for finite punishment. A being that would devise such a realm of eternal torment for finite "offenses" is not one worthy of worship.

It is, isn't it?
It makes me wonder why some people are so hell-bent on ending up there.
People may laugh now .. but it's not funny.

You make it sound as though we have a goal of ending up in your hell, and frankly that's more ridiculous. I know enough to discount the doctrine entirely, and do not fear doctrinal scare tactics.