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Empty Tomb / Empty Coffin

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
6 The Sunday Times article,1838


“TONNEINS, Dec. 30- A frightful case of premature interment occurred not long since, at Tonneins, in the Lower Garonne. The victim, a man in the prime of life, had only a few shovelfuls of earth thrown into his grave when an indistinct noise was heard to proceed from his coffin. The grave-digger, terrified beyond description, instantly fled to seek assistance, and some time elapsed before his return, when the crowd, which had by this time collected in considerable numbers round the grave, insisted on the coffin being opened. As soon as the first boards had been removed, it was ascertained beyond a doubt, that the occupant had been interred alive. His countenance was frightfully contracted with the agony he had undergone, and, in his struggles, the unhappy man had forced his arms completely out of the winding sheet, in which they had been securely enveloped. A physician, who was on the spot, opened a vein, but no blood flowed. The sufferer was beyond the reach of art.”

Interesting Fact: In The Complete Worst-Case Scenario Survival Handbook, one of the worst case scenarios listed in the book is how to survive if you are buried alive in a coffin. If anyone finds themselves in the same predicament as the people on this list you can read some life saving information here.
http://listverse.com/2010/02/02/10-horrifying-premature-burials/
Jesus was alive when he was laid in the tomb by his friends, when he got conscious he came out of the tomb, that is the reason the tomb was empty, he secretly met his friends as is evidenced in the Gospels and then migrated from Judea. Right? Please correct me if I am wrong.

Regards
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
"All the gospels include material not mentioned in the others."
That is enough proof that none of them was an eye-witness of the event of Crucifixion, had they all been the eye-witness, there would have been no difference in their narrations.
Regards
All four gospels describe Jesus impalement and death. Eyewitnesses to the same event often describe it differently based on their perspective. I think the gospels not walking in lockstep shows the writers did not collude. Each wrote an accurate narrative of events in Jesus life and ministry. And all four testify to the fact of Jesus resurrection.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
All four gospels describe Jesus impalement and death. Eyewitnesses to the same event often describe it differently based on their perspective. I think the gospels not walking in lockstep shows the writers did not collude. Each wrote an accurate narrative of events in Jesus life and ministry. And all four testify to the fact of Jesus resurrection.
None of the scribes of the NT are eye-witness of the even of crucifixion, all second hand accounts.
Regards
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Because they were not at the scene and were not eye-witnesses to write first hand account.
Regards
And how do you know that none of the gospel writers were at the scene? John testifies that he was there, close enough for Christ to speak to him. (John 19:25-27)
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
And how do you know that none of the gospel writers were at the scene? John testifies that he was there, close enough for Christ to speak to him. (John 19:25-27)
The scribe does not say that Jesus handed over his mother Mary to John. Does it?
And the other three scribes (Matthew,Mark and Luke) don't even mention that this dialogue ever took place. Right?
Please quote from the three (Matthew,Mark and Luke), if I missed to note it.

Regards
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The scribe does not say that Jesus handed over his mother Mary to John. Does it?
And the other three scribes (Matthew,Mark and Luke) don't even mention that this dialogue ever took place. Right?
Please quote from the three (Matthew,Mark and Luke), if I missed to note it.

Regards
The disciple was John, as other scriptures indicate. Luke apparently was not an eyewitness of Jesus death, since he wrote: "just as these were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and attendants of the message." He wrote his gospel from eyewitness testimony. The accounts of Matthew and Mark were doubtless eyewitness accounts, Matthew being one of Jesus 12 apostles and Mark a disciple. As mentioned previously, each eyewitness added his perspective to the events of Jesus death, all being correct.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
The disciple was John, as other scriptures indicate. Luke apparently was not an eyewitness of Jesus death, since he wrote: "just as these were handed down to us by those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and attendants of the message." He wrote his gospel from eyewitness testimony. The accounts of Matthew and Mark were doubtless eyewitness accounts, Matthew being one of Jesus 12 apostles and Mark a disciple. As mentioned previously, each eyewitness added his perspective to the events of Jesus death, all being correct.
But Matthew, Mark did not mention that John was on scene and where Matthew himself standing/sitting when Jesus was on the Cross and crying in agony.
Please mention chapter/verse that indicated their location.
You have already admitted that Luke was not there. Please
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
5 British Medical Journal,1877


“December 8- It appeared from the evidence that some time ago a woman was interred with all the usual formalities, it being believed that she was dead, while she was only in a trance. Some days afterwards, the grave in which she had been placed being opened for the reception of another body, it was found that the clothes which covered the unfortunate woman were torn to pieces, and that she had even broken her limbs in attempting to extricate herself from the living tomb. The Court, after hearing the case, sentenced the doctor who had signed the certificate of
decease, and the mayor who had authorized the interment, each to three months’ imprisonment for involuntary manslaughter.”

Interesting Fact: Today, when a definition of death is required, doctors usually turn to “brain death” to define a person as being clinically dead. People are considered dead when the electrical activity in their brain ceases.
http://listverse.com/2010/02/02/10-horrifying-premature-burials/
In Jesus case everything was done in a hurry. People took several days to die on a Cross; so why should have Jesus died so quickly in couple of hours ?
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
4 New York Times article,1884


“DAYTON, Feb. 8.-A sensation has been created here by the discovery of the fact that Miss Hockwalt, a young lady of high social connections, who was supposed to have died suddenly on Jan. 10, was buried alive. The terrible truth was discovered a few days ago, and since then it has been the talk of the city. The circumstance of Miss Hockwail’s death was peculiar. It occurred on the morning of the marriage of her brother to Miss Emma Schwind at Emannel’s Church. Shortly before 6 o’clock the young lady was dressing for the nuptials and had gone into the kitchen. A few moments afterward she was found sitting on a chair with her head leaning against a wall and apparently lifeless. Medical aid was summoned in, Dr. Jewett who, after examination, pronounced her dead. Mass was being read at the time in Emannel’s Church and it was thought best to continue, and the marriage was performed in gloom. The examination showed that Anna was of excitable temperament, nervous, and affected with sympathetic palpitation of the heart. Dr. Jewett thought this was the cause of her supposed death. On the following day, the lady was interred in the Woodland. The friends of Miss Hockwalt were unable to forget the terrible impression and several ladies observe that her eyes bore a remarkably natural color and could not dispel an idea that she was not dead. They conveyed their opinion to Annie’s parents and the thought preyed upon them so that the body was taken from the grave. It was stated that when the coffin was opened it was discovered that the supposed inanimate body had turned upon its right side. The hair had been torn out in handfuls and the flesh had been bitten from the fingers. The body was reinterred and efforts made to suppress the facts, but there are those who state they saw the body and know the facts to be as narrated.”

Interesting Fact: In 1822 Dr Adolf Gutsmuth was buried alive several times to demonstrate a safety coffin he had designed. Once he stayed underground for several hours and ate a meal of soup, sausages and beer delivered to him through the coffin’s feeding tube.
http://listverse.com/2010/02/02/10-horrifying-premature-burials/
Well!Jesus friends knew that he was not dead and was very much alive, but they kept this secret to themselves.
Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
3 Mary Norah Best,1871


Seventeen year old Mary Norah Best was the adopted daughter of Mrs. Moore Chew. Mary was pronounced dead from cholera and entombed in the Chew’s vault in an old French cemetery in Calcutta. The surgeon that pronounced her dead was a man who would have benefited by her death and had tried to kill her adopted mother. Before Mary “died” her adoptive mother fled to England after the second attempt on her life and left Mary behind. Mary was put into a pine coffin and it was nailed shut. Ten years later, in 1881 the vault was unsealed to admit the body of Mrs. Moore’s brother. On entering the vault, the undertaker’s assistant found the lid off of Mary’s coffin on the floor. The position of her skeleton was half in and half out of the coffin. Apparently after being entombed Mary awoke from the trance and struggled violently till she was able to force the lid off of her coffin. It is surmised that after bursting open her casket she fainted from the strain and while falling forward over the edge of her coffin she struck her head against the masonry shelf killing her. It is believed the surgeon poisoned the girl and then certified her death.

Interesting Fact: Some believe Thomas A Kempis, a German Augustinian monk who wrote The Imitation of Christ in the 1400’s was denied canonization because splinters were found embedded under his nails. Canonization authorities determined that anyone aspiring to be a saint would not fight death if he found himself buried alive.
http://listverse.com/2010/02/02/10-horrifying-premature-burials/
Jesus' case is of near-dead person laid in a tomb, he was not put in a wooden coffin closed from all sides with fastening the nails. Jesus was just wrapped with a cotton shroud so when he got conscious, he just walked out.
Regards
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Empty Tomb / Empty Coffin, not a sign of becoming god as Christians are made to believe by Paul/Church:
a98718_dead-wake-up_7-made-lunch.jpg

A 95-year-old Chinese woman thought to have passed away stunned her neighbours - after waking up six days after she had been placed in a coffin.

Li Xiufeng was found motionless and not breathing in bed by a neighbour two weeks after tripping and suffering a head injury at her home in Beiliu, Guangxi Province.
She was placed in a coffin which was kept in her house unsealed under Chinese tradition for friends and relatives to pay respects.
But the day before the funeral, neighbours found an empty coffin, and later discovered the 95-year-old, who had since woken up, in her kitchen cooking.
Neighbour Chen Qingwang, 60, who originally found Mrs Xiufeng, said: 'She didn't get up, so I came up to wake her up.
'No matter how hard I pushed her and called her name, she had no reactions.
When the neighbour who found her could not wake the pensioner up, they feared the worst and thought the elderly woman had passed away.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-95-comes-life-climbing-coffin-days-died.html
Regards


Why are you spreading your lies, Paul never said you become god from rising from the dead.
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
It is the Christianity doing it. As per clues from the NTGospels Jesus was neither a perfect human being nor a perfect G-d.
Regards
Jesus said he came to fulfill the law not fail it but again I'll sow you again something straight from Jesus mouth. You made a claim I showed you, and it wasn't enough for you. But I'll try again.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I agree being perfect doesn't mean your god. Adam was perfect like Paul said and Adam wasn't god.
Paul is no authority on religion and NT Gospels were doctored by him, his associates and the Church. Please quote from Jesus to support your viewpoint. Will one? Please
Regards
 

anonymous9887

bible reader
Paul is no authority on religion and NT Gospels were doctored by him, his associates and the Church. Please quote from Jesus to support your viewpoint. Will one? Please
Regards
Well what I was saying is this:
1. You say paul teaches some things, bringing charges against his teachings.
2. But I'm showing you that you are bring false charges against him, because you don't know his teaching, or what Jesus the son of man said in the Gospels for that matter.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Paul Chavez said:
I agree being perfect doesn't mean your god. Adam was perfect like Paul said and Adam wasn't god.

paarsurrey said:
Paul is no authority on religion and NT Gospels were doctored by him, his associates and the Church. Please quote from Jesus to support your viewpoint. Will one? Please

Well what I was saying is this:
1. You say paul teaches some things, bringing charges against his teachings.
2. But I'm showing you that you are bring false charges against him, because you don't know his teaching, or what Jesus the son of man said in the Gospels for that matter.
Please quote from Jesus that Adam was perfect. Please quote from Jesus that Paul was perfect.
Regards
 
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