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Elon Musk's SpaceX sued by DOJ

YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
OK. I don't get it. Why on earth would the DOJ possibly care about this enough to launch a lawsuit?

Can some of you folks explain this to me because it certainly looks like outright harassment from where I am sitting?

www.justice.gov

Justice Department Sues SpaceX for Discriminating Against Asylees and Refugees in Hiring

The Justice Department filed a lawsuit today against Space Exploration Technologies Corporation (SpaceX) for discriminating against asylees and refugees in hiring. The lawsuit alleges that, from at least September 2018 to May 2022, SpaceX routinely discouraged asylees and refugees from applying...
www.justice.gov www.justice.gov



"The Justice Department is seeking to have SpaceX pay civil penalties determined by a judge, hire the applicants who were qualified but rejected because of their citizenship status and give back pay to those who were discriminated against."

I don't know, but that sounds almost insane. How can you tell is someone would have been hired?
If they can do this to SpaceX, they can go after anyone who has ever passed over applicants.
 
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Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Asylees and refugees are people from other countries that have gone through our system and for the sort of jobs being posted they had the same rights to apply and if qualified be hired as citizens. It is in our own interest to make sure that they can get jobs. Do you think that we should be paying their way? These are people that are here legally and are willing to work, which aids society as a whole. Much better than have them stay on the dole because they can't get a job. And SpaceX was wrong for their reasons not to hire the:


"In job postings and public statements over several years, SpaceX wrongly claimed that under federal regulations known as “export control laws,” SpaceX could hire only U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents, sometimes referred to as “green card holders.” Export control laws impose no such hiring restrictions. Moreover, asylees’ and refugees’ permission to live and work in the United States does not expire, and they stand on equal footing with U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents under export control laws. Under these laws, companies like SpaceX can hire asylees and refugees for the same positions they would hire U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents. And once hired, asylees and refugees can access export-controlled information and materials without additional government approval, just like U.S. citizens and lawful permanent residents."

These do not appear to be high security jobs that could possibly exclude them from the workforce. It may make competition a bit tougher for US citizens, but that is what this country was built on. There was no built in favoritism in hiring. It is a win almost all the way around. The company gets better workers. We have new residents that are happy and contributing rather than unhappy and consuming from the US government.

How would you defend the actions of SpaceX?
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
It should be illegal for the government to force an American company to hire non-citizens. Those "refugee" programs are abused as hell and need to be looked into. Thanks to them, the Midwest has had thousands and thousands of Somalis dumped here and let's just say it doesn't make a good fit. There's ethnic tensions (no, not really from white people; black people don't like them as they tend to displace the blacks folks from what was formally their community) and cultural issues.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It's just another example of government protection of non citizens over their fellow countrymen. It's a low level act of treason favoring foreigners over citizens.

Legit work visas excepted of course.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
YmirGF said:
Musk is claiming that they did exactly what the government told SpaceX to do all this time.
Click to expand...
Musk has lost all credibility with me in the last few years. Tesla is still an amazing accomplishment, but he has had quite a few failures outside of that.
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
YmirGF said:
Um, OK.
Click to expand...
Put it this way, if the government is wrong Musk and company will have records of that earlier order. They will be able to support their claim in courts very easily. This would likely be thrown out before it even goes to trial if that were the case. And once again, seeing Tesla over promise and under deliver time after time I think that I will trust the government this time around.
 
Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Saint Frankenstein said:
It should be illegal for the government to force an American company to hire non-citizens. Those "refugee" programs are abused as hell and need to be looked into. Thanks to them, the Midwest has had thousands and thousands of Somalis dumped here and let's just say it doesn't make a good fit. There's ethnic tensions (no, not really from white people; black people don't like them as they tend to displace the blacks folks from what was formally their community) and cultural issues.
Click to expand...

If a non-citizen is legally in the US and also legally allowed to work, why shouldn't they be given an equal opportunity in hiring? I think giving them a fair opportunity to work is far preferable to making it harder for them to contribute to their host country and potentially ghettoizing them.
 
Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Twilight Hue said:
It's just another example of government protection of non citizens over their fellow countrymen. It's a low level act of treason favoring foreigners over citizens.

Legit work visas excepted of course.
Click to expand...

Do you consider non-citizens who are legally in the US and legally allowed to work within its borders to be equivalent to those who have legit work visas or not?
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Debater Slayer said:
If a non-citizen is legally in the US and also legally allowed to work, why shouldn't they be given an equal opportunity in hiring? I think giving them a fair opportunity to work is far preferable to making it harder for them to contribute to their host country and potentially ghettoizing them.
Click to expand...
What you are seeing here are "conservatives" contradicting themselves again. On another thread they will complain about refuges and asylees having to rely on welfare from the government. And since race is a social construct they are just demonstrating that they are racists with this attitude. I suppose they would not mind if a fully qualified engineer had to work as a janitor. They do not want to do that sort of work so they can see it going to immigrants.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Subduction Zone said:
Put it this way, if the government is wrong Musk and company will have records of that earlier order. They will be able to support their claim in courts very easily. This would likely be thrown out before it even goes to trial if that were the case. And once again, seeing Tesla over promise and under deliver time after time I think that I will trust the government this time around.
Click to expand...
I do tend to agree with this, aside from the very last line, however.
 
Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Subduction Zone said:
What you are seeing here are "conservatives" contradicting themselves again. On another thread they will complain about refuges and asylees having to rely on welfare from the government. And since race is a social construct they are just demonstrating that they are racists with this attitude. I suppose they would not mind if a fully qualified engineer had to work as a janitor. They do not want to do that sort of work so they can see it going to immigrants.
Click to expand...

I'm not trying to attack conservatives or anything of the sort, but I'm trying to understand the perspectives being expressed here. Some people understandably complain that a subset of immigrants don't sufficiently contribute to their new country or integrate within its society. Okay, what about immigrants who apply to jobs in a fully legal manner and work hard to meet the hiring requirements? Save for extremely specific jobs, rejecting foreign applicants merely on the basis of favoring citizens seems to me to fly in the face of encouraging contribution and integration from immigrants.
 
Twilight Hue

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Debater Slayer said:
Do you consider non-citizens who are legally in the US and legally allowed to work within its borders to be equivalent to those who have legit work visas or not?
Click to expand...
They are allowed to work.

I don't consider them equal as citizens but should be humanly treated as guests in this country.
 
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