each year many unborn babies are deliberately aborted.

[Cacotopia]

There's oh so many factors in making such a decision. I think if you boiled it all down to morality I would call you a shortsighted individual, incapable of factoring in the birth and future life of child's impact on not just you but others.

 

[Cacotopia]

Questions that need to be asked:
can I raise this child effectively?
can I give it the basic needs every single day? food, shelter, medical care, education?
Can I raise it in a relatively safe environment?
Am I mentally equipped to raise a child?
Can I give it the values and tools to succeed in this harsh world?
Can I instill in it a good work ethic, or do my best to make sure that when I am gone it will not end up a burden on the society to support it's life?
Will I and my child be financially depended on society to help raise this child?
Do I already have children and was selfish for more replacement value?
Will my family support the child too?
Am I in a loving relationship with my partner (gender not important) so that I will not psychologically damage the child in it's own future relationships if I am not?
If I am not will I selfishly use the child as an emotional weapon against the partner?
This is at minimum an 18 year commitment to the support of this individual am I ready for such a commitment
Am I established in my own life goals to be ready for this child?
These are a just few personal items on a massive list that I think a person needs to think about. When considering the future of a child.

If you don't think of these questions I say abort. Because you are not mentally equipped for such a massive responsibility of rearing a child.

 

[Prestor John]

You bore me. So far you have not been able to debate properly and continually perform the same logical errors.

Can you be honest? To date you have failed. Can you avoid logical fallacies? And please, don't accuse others of ad hominem. You do not appear to understand the concept.

You never once quote me doing any of the things you claim I do, which goes against your advice that you gave to me.

You are a joke.

 

[Prestor John]

Questions that need to be asked:
can I raise this child effectively?
can I give it the basic needs every single day? food, shelter, medical care, education?
Can I raise it in a relatively safe environment?
Am I mentally equipped to raise a child?
Can I give it the values and tools to succeed in this harsh world?
Can I instill in it a good work ethic, or do my best to make sure that when I am gone it will not end up a burden on the society to support it's life?
Will I and my child be financially depended on society to help raise this child?
Do I already have children and was selfish for more replacement value?
Will my family support the child too?
Am I in a loving relationship with my partner (gender not important) so that I will not psychologically damage the child in it's own future relationships if I am not?
If I am not will I selfishly use the child as an emotional weapon against the partner?
This is at minimum an 18 year commitment to the support of this individual am I ready for such a commitment
Am I established in my own life goals to be ready for this child?
These are a just few personal items on a massive list that I think a person needs to think about. When considering the future of a child.

If you don't think of these questions I say abort. Because you are not mentally equipped for such a massive responsibility of rearing a child.

All of those concerns can be brushed aside by the option of adoption.

An unwanted (by you) child is no less valuable than any other child.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You never once quote me doing any of the things you claim I do, which goes against your advice that you gave to me.

You are a joke.

BS, I did that multiple times. If you did not understand then you should have asked questions.

When I correct your posts I quote the entire post so I do not see how I could not have quoted you. You might want to work on your reasoning skills just a tad.

 

[Subduction Zone]

All of those concerns can be brushed aside by the option of adoption.

An unwanted (by you) child is no less valuable than any other child.

Really? Adoption takes away the damage done to a woman? The pain? The risk? Meanwhile you still can't demonstrate that a fetus is human.

 

[Willamena]

All of those concerns can be brushed aside by the option of adoption.

An unwanted (by you) child is no less valuable than any other child.

Even knowing that the child may not be adopted?

 

[Prestor John]

BS, I did that multiple times. If you did not understand then you should have asked questions.

When I correct your posts I quote the entire post so I do not see how I could not have quoted you. You might want to work on your reasoning skills just a tad.

I have already said everything I want to say to you.

Refer to the following posts if anyone wants to see where Subduction Zone failed over and over again without quoting me or explaining his claims,

268, 269, 299, 307, 331, 338, 344, 348, 357, 359

Consider this discussion officially over.

 

[Prestor John]

Really? Adoption takes away the damage done to a woman? The pain? The risk? Meanwhile you still can't demonstrate that a fetus is human.

None of those things were included in the list I responded to.

I would hope that anyone would be willing to take some risk to save a human life.

If a human fetus is not human, what is it?

 

[Subduction Zone]

None of those things were included in the list I responded to.

I would hope that anyone would be willing to take some risk to save a human life.

If a human fetus is not human, what is it?

I really do not care about your list where you ignore the obvious.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have already said everything I want to say to you.

Refer to the following posts if anyone wants to see where Subduction Zone failed over and over again without quoting me or explaining his claims,

268, 269, 299, 307, 331, 338, 344, 348, 357, 359

Consider this discussion officially over.

You failed in your first example. Post 268 was your post:

each year many unborn babies are deliberately aborted.

As was 269. Do you know how the numbering system works here?

If you want to claim that I failed you need to show my posts where I failed. Not your posts where you failed.

But it is nice to see you admit that you failed.

Were any of those posts my posts?

 

[Subduction Zone]

None of those things were included in the list I responded to.

I would hope that anyone would be willing to take some risk to save a human life.

If a human fetus is not human, what is it?

And we are back to your equivocation fallacy. If you want to claim that a fetus has the same rights as a living breathing human being then the burden of proof is upon you. That fact is that a fetus is not a human in that sense of the word. This has been your argument all along. One that you cannot support. Your inability to understand your error is why you lose.

 

[Prestor John]

Even knowing that the child may not be adopted?

I hate to answer your question with another question, but what if you needed a heart transplant and the doctors offered you two options,

1.) Get on the donor list and hope that you receive another heart one day, or,

2.) They kill you right now

Which option would you choose?

 

[Prestor John]

You failed in your first example. Post 268 was your post:

each year many unborn babies are deliberately aborted.

As was 269. Do you know how the numbering system works here?

If you want to claim that I failed you need to show my posts where I failed. Not your posts where you failed.

All of the posts I referenced were my posts.

Those posts are where I put you in your place and you flailed around aimlessly.

They can easily read your corresponding posts if they want, but all they will get are lies, insults and lame excuses to run away.

That's all you really had to offer.

 

[Prestor John]

And we are back to your equivocation fallacy. If you want to claim that a fetus has the same rights as a living breathing human being then the burden of proof is upon you. That fact is that a fetus is not a human in that sense of the word. This has been your argument all along. One that you cannot support. Your inability to understand your error is why you lose.

Again, you have this reversed.

Since all human history, logic and science prove that all people are the products of pregnancy, the burden of proof is upon you to show that a fetus is not human.

Why can't you prove that a fetus is not human?

 

[Subduction Zone]

All of the posts I referenced were my posts.

Those posts are where I put you in your place and you flailed around aimlessly.

They can easily read your corresponding posts if they want, but all they will get are lies, insults and lame excuses to run away.

That's all you really had to offer.

So all of the posts were your failures not mine. Most of those posts you improperly quoted me. Perhaps that was why you could not understand the explanations given.

And you should not tell such obvious falsehoods. You have never put me in "my place". In fact I have never seen you get the better of anyone here. And I do not lie. I do not need to. Nor do I insult. Again, I do not need to. Perhaps you should not be so sensitive. When your errors are explained to you time after time after time and people remark about your inability to understand explanations those are merely observations.

Lastly where have I ever run away? When you are excessively rude I will tell you to try again. That is not running away.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again, you have this reversed.

Since all human history, logic and science prove that all people are the products of pregnancy, the burden of proof is upon you to show that a fetus is not human.

Why can't you prove that a fetus is not human?

You are demonstrating poor reasoning again. Yes, people are the product of a complete pregnancy. but they are not "people" until after they are born. Even your prized Bible does not count people as people until after they are born. In fact the Bible does not count them for times as long as a month after birth. The law already supports me. The Bible supports me. Like far too many Christians when they are wrong and cannot support their claims you are trying to shift the burden of proof.

 

[Prestor John]

I really do not care about your list where you ignore the obvious.

It was not my list. I was responding to a list given by another RF member.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It was not my list. I was responding to a list given by another RF member.

You posted it. That made it your list. You should have at the very least checked it before you posted it. Is shifting the blame and the burden of proof all you can do?

 

[Cacotopia]

All of those concerns can be brushed aside by the option of adoption.

An unwanted (by you) child is no less valuable than any other child.

Except that many couples would rather add another kid instead of removing the burden from the state. It's not theirs why should they care mentality. Maybe they will be prayed for and move on with their lives thinking they did something positive.

Adoption doesn't brush aside the concern, in case you are forgetting that you still have to take care of the person you just adopted.