Does the early christian symbol...

[Nehustan]

...of the fish pertain to the pentecost? Thoughts?

 

[Bishka]

...of the fish pertain to the pentecost? Thoughts?

I always heard it was a symbol used by Christians when they were being persecuted.

 

[Green Gaia]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthus

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_symb.htm

http://www.plymouth-church.com/ichthus.html

 

[Nehustan]

I always heard it was a symbol used by Christians when they were being persecuted.

Yes I think it was...as I recall from my lessons...one person (from two) would draw a semi circle each combining to make the fish. I was thinking of the association of the fifty days, the letter nun, thus 50, and its attribute of 'fish'. Was really just putting it out there as a possibilty....

 

[Nehustan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthus​

...very interesting Maize given the 'as Jonah in the belly of the whale'.​

 

[James the Persian]

It's more of a pun, actually. Fish in Greek is Ichthys. The first two letters are 'I' and 'Ch' (chi) which are also the abreviation for Iesous Christos. In addition, of course, it refers to being 'fishers of men'. I've never heard any suggestion at all of an association with Pentecost and as it was a Greek symbol it, frankly, seems rather unlikely.

James

 

[Nehustan]

You know the association of the letter Nun - Fish - to the number fifty? I know that Greek played a large part in the reporting of the gospels (and thus probably generally with the disciples) but does this mean that Hebrew attributions were not used? Let me show you what I mean...see if I can find a decent link (By the way I'm not denying the attributions you state, rather positing there may be another)...no no good links all a bit 'hocus pocus'...so I'll have to just write the attribution for Nun...

Nun (Noon) - Fish - 50 (700) N​

 

[Nehustan]

Just had a quick look at some text from the Zohar (specifically to do with the letter Nun)....

"The letter nun entered. She said to Him: Master of the world, may it be Your will to create the world through me, for through me it is written "Awesome (nora) in praises" (Exodus 15: 11), and the praise of the righteous, namely, "Praise is comely (navak) [for the righteous]" (Psalm 33: 1)

He said to her: Nun, return to your place, for it is because of you that samekh has returned to her place. Rely upon her.

She immediately returned to her place, leaving His presence."

Lachower, F, and Tisby, I., (1989) translated by Goldstein, D., The wisdom of the zohar: an anthology of texts volume II, Littman Library, Oxford University Press, Oxford, UK.

 

[James the Persian]

You know the association of the letter Nun - Fish - to the number fifty? I know that Greek played a large part in the reporting of the gospels (and thus probably generally with the disciples) but does this mean that Hebrew attributions were not used? Let me show you what I mean...see if I can find a decent link (By the way I'm not denying the attributions you state, rather positing there may be another)...no no good links all a bit 'hocus pocus'...so I'll have to just write the attribution for Nun...

Nun (Noon) - Fish - 50 (700) N​

No. It just seems unlikely to me that a symbol used by Greek speaking Christians as a shorthand and hidden sign for Jesus Christ would be particularly likely to use such reasonings from Hebrew, particularly given that the Scriptures had long been translated into Greek. Greek numerals would give a completely different looking symbol (they used letters in a similar way to the Romans). I'm not saying they didn't do this (and there would obviously be no objection to a symbol meaning Pentecost), I just find the Ichthys explanation an awful lot more plausible. The fact that Ichthys is used as an acronym for the following seems pretty cut and dried to me:

Iēsous Christos Theou Huios Sōtēr: "Jesus Christ, Son of God, Savior"

(Note that 'h's in Greek are signs applied to the vowel and not letters in their own right)

James