Does the Apostle Paul claim that Jesus Christ, the holy anointed man, is Almighty God?

[101G]

All humans are immortal, not only Jesus, because we all have an immortal soul.

immortal soul? let's see what God says about that. Ezekiel 18:3 "As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel." Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." well that immortal soul of yours just flew out the window...... YIKES!

101G.

 

[Trailblazer]

immortal soul? let's see what God says about that. Ezekiel 18:3 "As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel." Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." well that immortal soul of yours just flew out the window...... YIKES!

101G.

This is really rather simple. That verse means that the soul that sins will not have eternal life, which is a state of the soul that is close to God.
That soul will be spiritually dead, but it will continue to EXIST in the spiritual realm after the body dies. A soul cannot die because it is not physical. Only physical things die.

When Jesus referred to eternal life, He was not referring to physical life of the body. He was referring a quality of life, spiritual life, loving God and being close to God.

The soul is eternal, the body perishes. That is why Jesus said: John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life

All the verses below refer to eternal life of the soul, not life of the physical body.

John 11:25-26 Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

All souls will continue to exist in the spiritual world after the body dies but not all souls will have eternal life (everlasting life).
Eternal life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God which, according to Jesus, comes from believing in Him.

“The immortality of the spirit is mentioned in the Holy Books; it is the fundamental basis of the divine religions. Now punishments and rewards are said to be of two kinds: first, the rewards and punishments of this life; second, those of the other world. But the paradise and hell of existence are found in all the worlds of God, whether in this world or in the spiritual heavenly worlds. Gaining these rewards is the gaining of eternal life. That is why Christ said, “Act in such a way that you may find eternal life, and that you may be born of water and the spirit, so that you may enter into the Kingdom.” 2”

Some Answered Questions, p. 223

The souls of people who are distant from God will not have eternal life; although their soul will continue to exist in the spiritual world after their physical body dies they will be “as dead” compared to those souls who are close to God.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”

Some Answered Questions, p. 243

 

[Trailblazer]

immortal soul? let's see what God says about that. Ezekiel 18:3 "As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel." Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." well that immortal soul of yours just flew out the window...... YIKES!

101G.

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

In those verses, Jesus was saying to deny our selfish desires, things we want that are not of God, and to follow in Jesus’ Way. For whoever will live for self and the world shall lose his eternal life, but whoever will sacrifice his life for the sake of Jesus shall gain eternal life.

If we live for self and the worldly things, we gain the world but we lose our soul because we lose eternal life. The soul that gains eternal life is near to God so it is in heaven. The soul that loses eternal life continues to exist in the spiritual world (since all souls are immortal) but that soul is far from God, so it is in hell.

In Verse 23, the things that are not of God, but are rather of men, are the things that cause us to sin, our selfish desires (things of the flesh which men savor). Jesus said to deny our selfish desires and instead follow Him. For whosoever will live for the things of the flesh shall lose it (eternal life), and whosoever will sacrifice those things for Jesus’ sake shall find it (it refers to eternal life).

This is a warning not to exchange one’s eternal life for our selfish desires that cause us to sin.” To lose one’s soul means to lose eternal life, since Eternal Life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God, which according to Jesus comes from believing in Him and following in His way.

All souls are immortal since God created the soul to be immortal, but only souls who are near to God have eternal life.
The other souls continue to exist in hell, far from God.

 

[Soapy]

Matthew 16:23-26 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

In those verses, Jesus was saying to deny our selfish desires, things we want that are not of God, and to follow in Jesus’ Way. For whoever will live for self and the world shall lose his eternal life, but whoever will sacrifice his life for the sake of Jesus shall gain eternal life.

If we live for self and the worldly things, we gain the world but we lose our soul because we lose eternal life. The soul that gains eternal life is near to God so it is in heaven. The soul that loses eternal life continues to exist in the spiritual world (since all souls are immortal) but that soul is far from God, so it is in hell.

In Verse 23, the things that are not of God, but are rather of men, are the things that cause us to sin, our selfish desires (things of the flesh which men savor). Jesus said to deny our selfish desires and instead follow Him. For whosoever will live for the things of the flesh shall lose it (eternal life), and whosoever will sacrifice those things for Jesus’ sake shall find it (it refers to eternal life).

This is a warning not to exchange one’s eternal life for our selfish desires that cause us to sin.” To lose one’s soul means to lose eternal life, since Eternal Life refers to a “quality” of life, nearness to God, which according to Jesus comes from believing in Him and following in His way.

All souls are immortal since God created the soul to be immortal, but only souls who are near to God have eternal life.
The other souls continue to exist in hell, far from God.

Trailblazer, you are closer to truth than most people I have heard from in this forum.

However, you have some errors in your belief.

There is no such place as “HELL”. It is only metaphorical in that the soul is ‘absent from the presence of God’. It is LIKE being in darkness - it is LIKE being in a grave. The emphasis is on ‘LIKE’ - an analogy which is HOW the people of the time IMAGINED the state of the deceased person.

You wrote yourself from the scriptures: ‘The Soul is immortal’… truly though, the SPECIFIC is that it is the SPIRIT of the Soul that is immortal.

A Soul is Spirit in body… but even if the body is destroyed, the Spirit still is ‘NOT DEAD’, therefore the SOUL, the person is not DEAD as far as GOD is concerned because the Spirit is in the presence of God.

But don’t be deceived: it doesn’t mean that the spirit is ACTIVE… it is not ACTIVE in the case of the body being dead. DEAD is only what the LIVING SOUL WITH BODY perceives of the deceased person since the cannot communicate with them.

After the judgement under Jesus’ judgement, those who are deemed worthy will be given a new body much like the first body but all defects will be sorted. Those deemed unworthy WILL HAVE THEIR SPIRIT DESTROYED….

DESTROYED…. That’s the difference.

When the spirit is destroyed the Soul is also DESTROYED… the Spirit and body both no longer exist…. ‘And there will be no remembrance of them!’

You see now that there is remembrance of the deceased which we commemorate with gravestones, books, films, letters, stories,… even the wicked like Hitler, Herod, Adam, Satan, etc. Why? Because they are not yet judged and destroyed but when Jesus judges them and if he deems them unworthy they will be no remembrance of them ever!!

(I’ve not written all that very well as I’m in a hurry but please try to understand or ask me to say more)

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer, you are closer to truth than most people I have heard from in this forum.

However, you have some errors in your belief.

There is no such place as “HELL”. It is only metaphorical in that the soul is ‘absent from the presence of God’. It is LIKE being in darkness - it is LIKE being in a grave. The emphasis is on ‘LIKE’ - an analogy which is HOW the people of the time IMAGINED the state of the deceased person.

I do not believe that hell is a place. Hell is only metaphorical in that the soul is ‘absent from the presence of God’. It is LIKE being in darkness - it is LIKE being in a grave.

You wrote yourself from the scriptures: ‘The Soul is immortal’… truly though, the SPECIFIC is that it is the SPIRIT of the Soul that is immortal.

It's all semantics. When I say that the Soul is immortal, I mean the Spirit is immortal, since in my beliefs the Spirit is synonymous with the Soul.

A Soul is Spirit in body… but even if the body is destroyed, the Spirit still is ‘NOT DEAD’, therefore the SOUL, the person is not DEAD as far as GOD is concerned because the Spirit is in the presence of God.

Well stated. That is exactly what I believe.

But don’t be deceived: it doesn’t mean that the spirit is ACTIVE… it is not ACTIVE in the case of the body being dead. DEAD is only what the LIVING SOUL WITH BODY perceives of the deceased person since the cannot communicate with them.

That is correct. The soul (spirit) is not active in the physical body after the physical body dies.
After the physical body dies, the soul (spirit) is raised as a spiritual body and is active in that spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

 

[Soapy]

I do not believe that hell is a place. Hell is only metaphorical in that the soul is ‘absent from the presence of God’. It is LIKE being in darkness - it is LIKE being in a grave.

It's all semantics. When I say that the Soul is immortal, I mean the Spirit is immortal, since in my beliefs the Spirit is synonymous with the Soul.

Well stated. That is exactly what I believe.

That is correct. The soul (spirit) is not active in the physical body after the physical body dies.
After the physical body dies, the soul (spirit) is raised as a spiritual body and is active in that spiritual body.

1 Corinthians 15 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

Yes.

A human spirit requires a body to action itself through. When Adam was created by God, the body of Adam was not an active body. It had no spirit in it to enable it to function.

So, although Adam existed AS A SOUL (there was his body and God held his spirit) he was not a LIVING SOUL.

Then God ‘breathed’ the spirit of Adam into the body and, thus with spirit united with body, Adam ‘Became a LIVING SOUL’.

In humanity, one living soul can communicate with another living soul - but if a living soul’s SPIRIT is separated from the body, the spirit can no longer communicate through that body) - it cannot communicate at all - which proves that the story of Lazarus and the rich man and the poor man is an allegory only! … why would a dead body need water since it is perished!!?)

Trinitarians try to destroy this truth when it comes to Jesus Christ. They claim that Jesus’ spirit was STILL ACTIVE even as his body was dead in the grave. But we who know truth know that that was not the case. Trinity must say what they say else their belief that Jesus is God would be destroyed (Yes, one lie necessitates another lie … and yet another… and .. ad nauseam!)
And here is a question:
- If Jesus is God, and his spirit was active even as his body lay subject to decay, why did it take GOD to raise him up again?
- And therefore, WHO is God?
- Indeed, Jesus did not raise himself from the dead! God did not raise up God since how was God dead??

Trinitarians have heard these accusations and fallen over themselves trying to create ways to get around the problem. So far nothing has worked so they just try to claim the verse: ‘And he went in spirit to those of the time of Noah’ as being their proof that Jesus was alive while being dead!!!

Truly, trinity can convince its congregation that a rock is delicious bread bun!!!

 

[Trailblazer]

A human spirit requires a body to action itself through. When Adam was created by God, the body of Adam was not an active body. It had no spirit in it to enable it to function.

So, although Adam existed AS A SOUL (there was his body and God held his spirit) he was not a LIVING SOUL.

Then God ‘breathed’ the spirit of Adam into the body and, thus with spirit united with body, Adam ‘Became a LIVING SOUL’.

In humanity, one living soul can communicate with another living soul - but if a living soul’s SPIRIT is separated from the body, the spirit can no longer communicate through that body) - it cannot communicate at all - which proves that the story of Lazarus and the rich man and the poor man is an allegory only! … why would a dead body need water since it is perished!!?)

True, a soul needs a physical body to communicate with another living soul while living in this world, since this is a physical world.
It is the spirit (what I consider analogous to the soul) that animates the physical body and allows it to function.

Of course the story of Lazarus and the rich man and the poor man is an allegory. A dead body that has perished does not need water!

And here is a question:
- If Jesus is God, and his spirit was active even as his body lay subject to decay, why did it take GOD to raise him up again?
- And therefore, WHO is God?
- Indeed, Jesus did not raise himself from the dead! God did not raise up God since how was God dead??

Trinitarians have heard these accusations and fallen over themselves trying to create ways to get around the problem.

There is no way around the problem.
If Jesus was God that would mean that God raised Himself from the dead, but God cannot die, so God doesn't need to be raised from the dead.
Only a human can die, so if Jesus died that means that Jesus was not God.

Case closed.

 

[Soapy]

immortal soul? let's see what God says about that. Ezekiel 18:3 "As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel." Ezekiel 18:4 "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." well that immortal soul of yours just flew out the window...... YIKES!

101G.

Your assessment is faulty to the extent of being completely wrong!

The ‘Soul’ is the person. The ultimate destiny of a petson (a Soul) whom Jesus judges as unworthy of ETERNAL LIFE in the new world, IS DESTRUCTION of the person: Body and Spirit.

God rightly states that the soul that sinner will die… DESTRUCTION of the body and Spirit is what GOD CALLS “DEATH” (and its derivative terms).

Humanity uses the word ‘DEATH’ (and its derivative terms) as being death in the BODY - absence of the spirit from the body. The SPIRIT, in this situation IS NOT DESTROYED … is not ‘DEAD’!

Death of the BODY is not DEATH of the Spirit…
Man can DESTROY the body of a Soul - but cannot DESTROY the Spirit of a soul.

So, in terms of MANKIND, the soul IS IMMORTAL because ONLY GOD can DESTROY the SPIRIT and thus the SOUL!

 

[Soapy]

True, a soul needs a physical body to communicate with another living soul while living in this world, since this is a physical world.
It is the spirit (what I consider analogous to the soul) that animates the physical body and allows it to function.

Of course the story of Lazarus and the rich man and the poor man is an allegory. A dead body that has perished does not need water!

There is no way around the problem.
If Jesus was God that would mean that God raised Himself from the dead, but God cannot die, so God doesn't need to be raised from the dead.
Only a human can die, so if Jesus died that means that Jesus was not God.

Case closed.

Absolutely correct….

… Except in one small part (small mistakes amplified can lead to large errors!)

The SPIRIT is not analogous to the SOUL.
‘Soul’ is the CONTAINER term for the two parts that make a PERSON. It is like the SHELL of an egg:
- The EGG SHELL is analogous to the SOUL
- The Soul is the container for the BODY and Spirit just as the egg shell is the container for the (simply put) the white (Albumin) and the Yoke.

When speaking of the egg, pointing at the albumin or the yoke together OR separately, it is still called, ‘Egg’ since both are properties of the egg. In the same way we say that the Spirit is a property of the Soul - the person, and so also the body is a property of the human soul (person).

You can note from this that ‘Person’ and ‘Soul’ ARE JUST DIFFERENT WORDS for the same thing. It is just as simple as saying ‘MESSIAH’ or ‘CHRIST’:
- ‘The PERSON that sinneth shall die’
- ‘The SOUL that sinneth shall die’

I hope this helps for a fuller understanding so disputes with those who are purposely or innocently in ignorance on this topic can be shown the truth!

 

[Trailblazer]

The SPIRIT is not analogous to the SOUL.
‘Soul’ is the CONTAINER term for the two parts that make a PERSON. It is like the SHELL of an egg:
- The EGG SHELL is analogous to the SOUL
- The Soul is the container for the BODY and Spirit just as the egg shell is the container for the (simply put) the white (Albumin) and the Yoke.

When speaking of the egg, pointing at the albumin or the yoke together OR separately, it is still called, ‘Egg’ since both are properties of the egg. In the same way we say that the Spirit is a property of the Soul - the person, and so also the body is a property of the human soul (person).

You said: The Spirit is a property of the Soul - the person, and so also the body is a property of the human soul (person).
I think what you are saying is that the Soul 'contains' a body and a Spirit.

I think we are on the same page but we are just thinking about the soul differently. Below is what I believe about the soul.

The Soul works through the brain and while we are living on earth in a physical body. The Soul is associated with the brain and it animates and directs the brain and the body.

The Soul works through the brain and while we are alive on earth in a physical body, but when we die and no longer have a physical body the Soul continues to live. It lives forever, and that is why it is called an 'immortal Soul.'

The Soul is the sum total of the personality so the Soul is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The Soul takes on some kind of a spiritual body made up of elements that exist in the spiritual world.

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The Soul does not have cognitive functions, only the brain has those. The Soul 'animates' the brain so it is responsible for our ability to think and feel. If we had no soul the body would have no life.

Since the brain dies when the physical body dies there can be no more physical diseases such as epilepsy and Alzheimer's after the physical body dies. Since the Soul is responsible for consciousness and thought, consciousness and thought continues in the spiritual world, but it works through a spiritual body which is not subject to disease.

 

[Soapy]

You said: The Spirit is a property of the Soul - the person, and so also the body is a property of the human soul (person).
I think what you are saying is that the Soul 'contains' a body and a Spirit.

I think we are on the same page but we are just thinking about the soul differently. Below is what I believe about the soul.

The Soul works through the brain and while we are living on earth in a physical body. The Soul is associated with the brain and it animates and directs the brain and the body.

The Soul works through the brain and while we are alive on earth in a physical body, but when we die and no longer have a physical body the Soul continues to live. It lives forever, and that is why it is called an 'immortal Soul.'

The Soul is the sum total of the personality so the Soul is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind remains the same person, and he goes to the spiritual world where he continues the life he conducted in the physical world. The Soul takes on some kind of a spiritual body made up of elements that exist in the spiritual world.

````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
The Soul does not have cognitive functions, only the brain has those. The Soul 'animates' the brain so it is responsible for our ability to think and feel. If we had no soul the body would have no life.

Since the brain dies when the physical body dies there can be no more physical diseases such as epilepsy and Alzheimer's after the physical body dies. Since the Soul is responsible for consciousness and thought, consciousness and thought continues in the spiritual world, but it works through a spiritual body which is not subject to disease.

I’m going to disagree.

‘Soul’ is just a different word for ‘Person’.

Try substituting the word ‘Person’ into your idea of ‘Soul’. It doesn’t work, does it?

When the scriptures were translated, the only word that fitted a SPIRITUAL (that is. Bible-type word) was ‘Soul’. It’s similar to words like ‘Thee’ and ‘Thou’, which are rarely used nowadays EXCEPT in a biblical reading.

Over time words are changed to contemporary renderings. And so gradually less biblical words become the norm - which is his ‘Soul’ turned into ‘Person’… it’s less ‘Biblical’ for a greater secular society.

I gave you an example:
- ‘The soul that sins will die’
- ‘The person that sins will die’

Here are a few more:
- ‘I searched the burning building but there was not a soul in there!’ (Not even a single person was in there)

- ‘That guy I introduced you to, he’s a good old soul’ (He’s a good person)

- ‘My soul grieved for her loss’ (personal: ‘Me / I / My self’… grieved…)

The person, the man, the soul… is the whole of the two parts of a human being.

God commanded the creation of the mechanical / Chemical / Physics / Biology body of THE MAN… the Person … the Soul… of Adam.

Then God, the creator… the Father … of Spirits, ‘blew’ the spirit of Adam into the inert body of the person of Adam in order for the body to be animated… for Adam to become a LIVING SOUL… a Living MAN.

Without the breath of life in the body of Adam, Adam would still be… but would be a DEAD SOUL, a dead Person… a dead man.

The man, the person, the soul exists even as the spirit is not in the body.

The m / p / s exists even if the body is destroyed… because ‘The body counts for nothing - the Spirit counts for all’.

 

[Trailblazer]

I’m going to disagree.

‘Soul’ is just a different word for ‘Person’.

Try substituting the word ‘Person’ into your idea of ‘Soul’. It doesn’t work, does it?

What if I substitute the word Spirit where I had the word Soul? Then would you agree with what I wrote?

 

[Soapy]

What if I substitute the word Spirit where I had the word Soul? Then would you agree with what I wrote?

No, because ‘Spirit’ is not ‘Soul’.

Consider,
- ‘The Soul that sinneth will die’
and
- ‘The Spirit that sinneth will die’

They are not the same sentence.

But:
- ‘The Person that sins will die’
- ‘The Soul that sins will die’

Now, these two are the same because ‘Spirit and Body’ is Soul - is Person.

Is there a use of the word, ‘Person’ in scriptures in Greek or Hebrew?

No! The word ‘Soul’ is used but today we say ‘Person’ because of changing language.

Witness this verse:
- “But it is the spirit in a person, the breath of the Almighty, that gives them understanding.” (Job 32:8)