Does Religion Bashing Serve Any Useful Purpose?

[Skwim]

At the very core of all debate is the given statement on both sides that "You're wrong and I'm right." Now, if I'm going to convince you of that, more likely than not I'll have to show you where you're wrong; that is, criticize your position. Whether this amounts to bashing depends on how much I've gone past making my point. If I criticize your position with what I believe to be a cogent argument, and you fail to understand, I have the right to try, and try again until I deem it futile to continue. However, if I criticize your position with a cogent argument, and you understand, yet I continue to criticize it over and over again, that I would consider to be bashing. That the subject is religion, Ronald Reagan, or Rice-A-Roni is irrelevant.

That's in a debate. Outside of debate, any unjustified criticism could be considered to be bashing. But justify your criticism, honestly, and I don't see bashing.

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[9-10ths_Penguin]

I get what you're saying, but... every time a person donates money to any group, be it a religious group, a political party or any one of a myriad of charities, he can pretty much be guaranteed that the group isn't going to be spending that money in 100% the same way as he would himself. If I believe that 95% of my tithing funds goes to worthwhile causes, I can excuse the fact that 5% of it goes to a cause I do not support. Without that 95% times all of the people who tithe, there a lot of very positive things that take place that wouldn't otherwise be able to take place.

What sort of good can only be supported by also supporting that 5% of bad? I get that there are plenty of LDS-affiliated charities doing good work, but there are usually ways to be more directed and deliberate than just giving a general donation that goes into general revenue.

At my ex's church, if you wanted to give an earmarked donation just for church upkeep, or just for charitable causes, or even just for flowers in the church at Easter, etc., etc., you could do that. I was under the impression that this sort of flexibility was pretty common.

And you do support that 5%. You literally support it monetarily.

 

[Kirran]

Still, until better options present themselves, what is a person to do?

Go for a walk, watch a TV show, do some yoga, volunteer...

 

[Kirran]

I get what you're saying, but... every time a person donates money to any group, be it a religious group, a political party or any one of a myriad of charities, he can pretty much be guaranteed that the group isn't going to be spending that money in 100% the same way as he would himself. If I believe that 95% of my tithing funds goes to worthwhile causes, I can excuse the fact that 5% of it goes to a cause I do not support. Without that 95% times all of the people who tithe, there a lot of very positive things that take place that wouldn't otherwise be able to take place.

Does tCoJCoLDS do compulsory tithing, Katzpur?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Go for a walk, watch a TV show, do some yoga, volunteer...

IOW, activities that don’t involve disturbing the religious status quo?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Does tCoJCoLDS do compulsory tithing, Katzpur?

Compulsory tithing to an organization with voluntary membership is still voluntary. “If you belong to our organization, you must do X” is not equivalent to “you must do X, period.” We’re each responsible for our own actions.

 

[Kirran]

IOW, activities that don’t involve disturbing the religious status quo?

There are more concrete ways to do it if you wanna improve the world.

Or even if you just wanna disturb the religious status quo.

Compulsory tithing to an organization with voluntary membership is still voluntary. “If you belong to our organization, you must do X” is not equivalent to “you must do X, period.” We’re each responsible for our own actions.

Certainly.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are more concrete ways to do it if you wanna improve the world.

Or even if you just wanna disturb the religious status quo.

But none as quick and easy as, say, flipping the bird to some anti-abortion protestors as you drive by... which also doesn’t preclude “more concrete ways.”

Condemnation is one tool in the toolbox. The fact that other tools often do the job better doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be in the toolbox at all.

I’ve used my ball joint puller maybe 3 times in my life; it’s completely inappropriate 99.99% of the time. Still, I’ve never heard anyone argue that I should throw it away because of this.

 

[Kirran]

But none as quick and easy as, say, flipping the bird to some anti-abortion protestors as you drive by... which also doesn’t preclude “more concrete ways.”

Condemnation is one tool in the toolbox. The fact that other tools often do the job better doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be in the toolbox at all.

I’ve used my ball joint puller maybe 3 times in my life; it’s completely inappropriate 99.99% of the time. Still, I’ve never heard anyone argue that I should throw it away because of this.

Well I don't accept the foundation upon which you're making your assertions.

I don't feel there's some kind of campaign or crusade going on here, or that one needs to think there is.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well I don't accept the foundation upon which you're making your assertions.

I don't feel there's some kind of campaign or crusade going on here, or that one needs to think there is.

That depends what you mean.

There is a campaign here in Ontario to merge our publicly-funded Catholic schools into the secular public system. There are campaigns in many parts of the world to legalize same-sex marriage over religious objections. There are counter-campaigns against the anti-choice campaigns to outlaw abortion.

... and on and on.

If you don’t think the goals that these campaigns are fighting for are important, then you don’t have to join in, but the campaigns still exist.

 

[Revoltingest]

I’ve used my ball joint puller maybe 3 times in my life; it’s completely inappropriate 99.99% of the time. Still, I’ve never heard anyone argue that I should throw it away because of this.

I'd no idea you were into such kinky toys.
But it sounds painful.

 

[Katzpur]

Does tCoJCoLDS do compulsory tithing, Katzpur?

No. We believe tithing to be a commandment from God, but as with all other commandments, the individual is free to either keep it or not. Nobody is forced or coerced, and there is no punishment, shunning, or anything of that sort if you don't tithe. I attended church for a number of years back in the 1980s and didn't pay a dime. Nobody said anything about it. Other than paying tithing, my husband and I were fully involved in the church.

A full tithe is a requirement for Mormons who wish to attend the temple, but nobody checks to see if you fudged a little (or a lot). You're just asked, "Do you pay a full tithing?" along with about ten other questions which determine your level of commitment to the gospel.

 

[Shad]

Does religion bashing serve any useful purpose? By "bashing", I mean here wholly condemnatory criticism of a religion or religions. Emphasis on the word "condemnatory". When you condemn something, as opposed to merely criticize or critique it, you take a one-sided approach to it that sees nothing at all redeeming in it. At least, that's how the term is being used here.

If we are generalizing religion into something monolithic I believe the bashing misses the point. Specific sub-groupings as per ImmortalFlame's example are fine with me provided the bashing is not arbitrary.

 

[Al Ibn Al Amra]

Do you think that Al Islam is only the religion ? .