Does reincarnation exist in Advaita?

[Pleroma]

Can I make it anymore explicit ? Should I make a huge billboard and emblazen this citation on it, or write it out in neon letters? It is not my fault that Hindus are not accepting what their very own Shruti is saying. My views are backed up through and through by Shruti, by modern secular scholarship and by modern science. I am on very strong ground. So please don't condemn me for actually being loyal to my religion.

I absolutely agree with you that we need to do away with idol worship and also too much emphasis on the literal stories of Rama, Krishna, Jesus etc for that matter. Where I disagree with you is your opinion on the Vedas that they worshipped the manifested outer world as gods and you think that they were nomadic and ignorant, which is absolutely untrue and if that was the case the whole religion of Hinduism will be shattered and it will be proved that there is no truth in it, the Vedas are as important as the Upanishads, we need to go and revive our Hindu religion back to the Vedic religion and back to the Vedic Hiranyagarbha Yoga tradition.

 

[Pleroma]

Can I make it anymore explicit ? Should I make a huge billboard and emblazen this citation on it, or write it out in neon letters? It is not my fault that Hindus are not accepting what their very own Shruti is saying. My views are backed up through and through by Shruti, by modern secular scholarship and by modern science. I am on very strong ground. So please don't condemn me for actually being loyal to my religion.

I absolutely agree with you that we need to do away with idol worship and also the too much emphasis on the literal stories of Rama, Krishna, Jesus etc for that matter. Where I disagree with you is your opinion on the Vedas that they worshipped the manifested outer world as gods and you think that they were nomadic and ignorant, which is absolutely untrue and if that was the case the whole religion of Hinduism will be shattered and it will be proved that there is no truth in it, the Vedas are as important as the Upanishads, we need to go and revive our Hindu religion back to the Vedic religion and back to the Vedic Hiranyagarbha Yoga tradition.

 

[DanielR]

Another question! Is reincarnation logical?? I mean how does it explain the ever growing population? (I know this is a standard question) I mean I would explain it like that, there is an infinite amount of souls, if one soul gets liberated it's basically infinity - 1= (still) infinty ?

Is my thinking pattern correct??

 

[Maya3]

Another question! Is reincarnation logical?? I mean how does it explain the ever growing population? (I know this is a standard question) I mean I would explain it like that, there is an infinite amount of souls, if one soul gets liberated it's basically infinity - 1= (still) infinty ?

Is my thinking pattern correct??

Pretend that the Source is like a candle, even if you light 100 candles from the first flame, it is still untouched by it. It is still the same size.

Technically there is only ONE soul, we are all it. What reincarnates is the part of you that is attached to matter, or attached to your karmas.
And that part have numerous opportunities for a new life, not necessarily human.

Maya

 

[Jainarayan]

Or drops of water from the ocean. Drops are never created or destroyed.

 

[Shuddhasattva]

Just saying: some of these explanations are more in-line with various forms of dvaitadvaita rather than advaita.

There is neither qualitative nor quantitative difference between atman and paramatman in advaita, the two are synonymous and only differentiated for the human conception - and and that differentiation is to be resolved through the recognition that no such differentiation, nor resolution, occurs.

 

[Jainarayan]

Yeah, Advaita is kind of hard to wrap one's head around. I always tend towards Vishishtadvaita examples and thinking.

 

[Maya3]

Just saying: some of these explanations are more in-line with various forms of dvaitadvaita rather than advaita.

There is neither qualitative nor quantitative difference between atman and paramatman in advaita, the two are synonymous and only differentiated for the human conception - and and that differentiation is to be resolved through the recognition that no such differentiation, nor resolution, occurs.

Could you elaborate on what you mean here if you wouldn´t mind?

Maya

 

[Shântoham]

The word reality here is improper and misleading if not contextualized, but I could not really think of another word. In Advaita the only existent reality is Brahman who is Sat-Chit-Ananda. This is absolute reality(paramatika satyam) and the reality that is produced from Maya(which we falsely call matter) which produces Jiva and Ishvara, which then produce the rest of the world is the temporal pragmatic reality(vyavahrika satyam) but which is an illusion:

Panchadasi

2.97. If we abstract from the cosmos the existence which underlines it, all the worlds and all objects are reduced to a mere illusory appearance. What does it matter even if they still continue to exist?

6.129. Since the effects of Maya are undeniably manifest, its existence canot be denied. Being stultified by knowledge, it cannot be really said to exist. From the point of view of absolute knowledge it is always inoperative and hence neglible.


6.133. Maya transforms the immutable Kutastha, the every association-less Atman, phenomenally into the form of the universe. Casting the reflections of Atman on itself, Maya creates Jiva and Ishvara

6.136. The magic show looks wonderful and inexplicable so as long as the magician is not directly known, but when the magician is so known, the magic shown is known as such and is no longer wonderful.

6.235. The Sruti decalres that in fact there is no destruction and no origination; none in bondage and none engaged in practice for liberation; no aspirant for liberation and none liberated. This is the transcedental truth.

6.236. Maya is said to the desire fulfilling cow. Jiva and Ishvara are its two calves. Drink of its milk of duality as much as you like, but the truth is non duality.
​

Hence it is established that ishvara, jiva and world are unreal. This is why a Pure Advaitin does not worship Ishvara, for Ishvara is an illusory product of Maya and the Shruti very explicitly tell us not to worship the unmanifest impersonal energy. An Advaitn does not have to worship anything, an Advaitin listens to the Shruti, contemplates on the Shurti and meditates on the Shruti to realize the paramatika sayam while practicing chittashuddi or purification of their mind so that the meaning of the Shruti awakens their Jnana. In order to achieve this Advaitin practices Yoga to still the activities of the mind to awaken the Jnana within.

Namaskāram

And yet you disappoint me once again. I asked you specific questions based on your statement and you simply avoided any direct answer. You just gave me another mouthful of personal opinions.
If you cannot back up your statements with Śruti and Bhāśya – and Pañcadasī is neither – it is personal opinion and not Vedānta.
Are you unfamiliar with Śruti and Bhāśya? As a Vedāntin Śruti and Bhāśya should be your bread and butter.
I don’t aspect any rational reply from you on the matter of Śruti and Bhāśya since – on another thread – you denied the centrality of Bhagavadpāda in regard to (Advaita) Vedānta. No Vedāntin would take you seriously after such a ludicrous statement. Not even your precious scholars.
You underlined for me Pañcadasī 2.97 and 6.133. Here is the Sanskrit for 2.97:

brahmāṇḍa loka deheṣu sadavastuni pṛthak kṛte
asanto’ṇḍādayo bhāntu tadbhāne’pīha kā kṣatiḥ

Could you point out which of the above indicates the part you underlined for me (illusory appearance)? The reason why I ask is because if you can point out the exact terminology we can then connect it to Śruti and Bhāśya and thru them to the Siddhānta. In this way – and only in this way – we can establish if your contention is valid – not selectively posting other people translations of the Texts and then claiming loudly that it is the contention of Vedānta.
A Text can only be accepted in relation to the Siddhānta and not in relation to personal opinions.
For 6.133 I will ask just one question – if Māyā is Jaḍa how can it create?
Anyway I plan to address your Pañcadasī nonsense the sooner I have some spare time.
In the meantime I hope you realize that according to your own contention even a Pure Advaitin is an illusory product of Māyā – so why an illusory product of Māyā cannot worship another illusory product of Māyā?
It’s interesting that you speak of Cittaśuddhi since one of the major contributors to it is Upāsanā – worship.

Please cite a recognized Advaita text which says we should worship Ishvara?

Recognized by whom? You? I am afraid you don’t know the Tradition that well. You already discarded the Bhagavadgītā – and by doing so you implied that all the Ācāryas are incompetent – so let’ s see. How about the Bhaktirasāyana and the Gūḍhārtha-Dīpikā of Madhusūdana Sarasvatī? The Prabodhasudhākara, and the Bhaja Govindam of Bhagavadpāda? The countles Upāsanās of the Upaniṣads? The countless Stotram accepted by the Tradition? The very same Tradition you claim to rapresent. There is more if you need more.
Though Vedānta upholds the primacy of Jñānam for the realization of the identity of Brahman with Pratyak Ātman, it does acknowledge the necessity of Bhakti to the Personal aspect of Brahman (Īśvara) by whose Grace one attains Jñānam. Īśvara prasāda nimitta jñāna praptyā eva (Bhagavadgītā Bhāṣya 2.39).
It recognizes that the same Impersonal Brahman appears as the personal Īśvara – the Creator and Lord of the Universe. Rather, the same Reality is manifesting as Īśvara, Jīva, Jagat.
Īśvaro gururātmeti mūrttibhedhavibhāginevyomavad vyāpta dehāya dakṣiṇāmūrttaye namaḥ – I prostrate to Lord Dakṣiṇāmūrti, who is all-pervading like space, but who appears (as though) divided as the Lord, the Guru, and the Self.
As a self-proclaimed traditionally trained Vedāntin you should know the above verse real well.

Pranāms

 

[Pleroma]

As I said many times, this is a big problem with western Advaitis who don't know about tradition, they think Advaita is atheistic. They think we are the weakest link, what a big joke, so deluded about their position. God help them, that's all I can say.

 

[Surya Deva]

Namaste Shantoham,

It is getting confusing and repetitive posting in multiple threads where Advaita debates are going on, can you please post in Madhuri's Advaita thread in the same-debate forum. I will respond to all your points there, as I am responding to others there as well.

Regards

 

[Surya Deva]

Yeah, Advaita is kind of hard to wrap one's head around. I always tend towards Vishishtadvaita examples and thinking.

Yep, it requires a very sharp intellect and deep philosophical skill. This is my formal background so to me it comes rather easily, but its taken years of deep ponderous thought.

But said who enlightenment is going to be easy?

 

[DanielR]

I must confess something,

I've been reading about buddhism lately and on another forum some buddhists claimed that Advaita doesn't lead to liberation because there's still clinging to that 'ultimate Truth or Reality'? So they will be reincarnated again but maybe into higher realms.

What do you all think about that?

 

[Pleroma]

Just show respect for both Advaita Vedanta and Buddhism because they both hail from the same roots and take it from level to level rather than making preconceived notions now itself.

 

[DanielR]

Of Course

 

[Pleroma]

The liberation or Immortality achieved in both Advaita and Bhuddism is the same, the former deals with Jiva and Ishvara where as the latter deals with a series of mutual opposites and makes you aware of the Bodhisattva.