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Does reincarnation exist in Advaita?

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
Okay Shuddhasattva,

I hope you can help me with that, the reason why I asked the question in my first post is, what happens according to Advaita when I die and I do NOT realize Brahman. Do I have to start everything from the beginning?? all the progress in this life is in vain??

Thank You =)


The 'particular' atman that is the core of your awareness will take up another body, equipped with millenia of both wisdom and ignorance. Everything that "you" spiritually accomplish in this life will be as a foundation to "you" in the next.

But will you be the same personality/entity? No.
 

Maya3

Well-Known Member
The way I see it is like this:
Our own bodies shed cells and replaces them contiguously and after 7 years we are actually completely renewed. (At least so I´ve heard).
But even if our cells are replaced WE our Mind etc feel exactly the same (except for a couple of more wrinkles here and their depending on your heritage. Swedes wrinkle rather easy.)

It is the same with the manifestation our TRUE SELF that is the same as Brahman/God, stays the same even though parts of our bodies reincarnates.

I have met a boy who spoke of his past lives. A boy who grew up with an Atheist father, and an agnostic/cultural Christian mother and not raised religious at all. He spontaneously mentioned things that could only be explained by past lives.

I´ve worked with children for almost 30 years and I have met A LOT of kids. But this boy is the only one that I have ever encountered that said anything that pointed to past lives.
And believe me I would love it if more would, because it would confirm my beliefs. But no, only this one boy.
I´m telling you this just so that you don´t think that I run into kids every five minutes that I imagine speak about their past lives.

Even though I have always believed in past lives, I was absolutely blown away by this little kid. Blown away.

Maya
 

DanielR

Active Member
The 'particular' atman that is the core of your awareness will take up another body, equipped with millenia of both wisdom and ignorance. Everything that "you" spiritually accomplish in this life will be as a foundation to "you" in the next.

But will you be the same personality/entity? No.


Thank You, well that makes sense, could you elaborate a bit on that bolded part, I'm a bit slow at times, does this mean it would be a completely different person??
 

DanielR

Active Member
The way I see it is like this:
Our own bodies shed cells and replaces them contiguously and after 7 years we are actually completely renewed. (At least so I´ve heard).
But even if our cells are replaced WE our Mind etc feel exactly the same (except for a couple of more wrinkles here and their depending on your heritage. Swedes wrinkle rather easy.)

It is the same with the manifestation our TRUE SELF that is the same as Brahman/God, stays the same even though parts of our bodies reincarnates.

I have met a boy who spoke of his past lives. A boy who grew up with an Atheist father, and an agnostic/cultural Christian mother and not raised religious at all. He spontaneously mentioned things that could only be explained by past lives.

I´ve worked with children for almost 30 years and I have met A LOT of kids. But this boy is the only one that I have ever encountered that said anything that pointed to past lives.
And believe me I would love it if more would, because it would confirm my beliefs. But no, only this one boy.
I´m telling you this just so that you don´t think that I run into kids every five minutes that I imagine speak about their past lives.

Even though I have always believed in past lives, I was absolutely blown away by this little kid. Blown away.

Maya

Past Life Experiences are a good point, Maya. I don't think we should discredit these occurences so easily, which makes me believe reincarnation is real.

Thank you.
 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
You will be a person with a similar karmic 'configuration' (as modified by the life before, but having in common the vast stretches of lives before that), and likely given to a similar mind-type - though not necessarily. Spiritual inclinations will carry over to one degree or another, as will material inclinations.

But the personality itself is a complex thing due to many, many factors. Ask yourself, is your personality the same as it was 10 years ago? Sure, you have the sensation of continuity of self-awareness, and that's the sine qua non of the personal identity itself, but the personality is now very different, no? That effect is much magnified when that continuity is broken by death and rebirth.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Youi know I never disagree with you, so I'll just split hairs... :D

My understanding is that the merging occurs once realisation is reached. Until then the soul reincarnates.

Because of aham Brahmasmi ("I am Brahman") and sarvam khalvidam Brahman ("everything we see is Brahman") in Advaita, it's more like the "realization occurs once realization is reached. There's nothing to merge with. We just have to realize we are Brahman.

I think if you take away reincarnation from Hinduism, a lot of other aspects stop making sense (like the meaning or purpose of life).

I wonder about that though. Of course I believe in reincarnation, I always did, but I can't help but wonder if life has meaning if a soul is incarnated even once for a specific purpose. :shrug:

I mean, I definitely want to come back as my sister-in-law, my brother's wife. Every holiday they've been invited out, and she never had to cook a blessed thing. She's gotten anything she wanted from my brother. Yes, I want to come back as my sister-in-law. :biglaugh:
 

Maya3

Well-Known Member
Past Life Experiences are a good point, Maya. I don't think we should discredit these occurences so easily, which makes me believe reincarnation is real.

Thank you.

With this little boy, it was so overwhelmingly obvious that there really is no other explanation.
I imagine it was a little like Self Realization, it´s one of these things that we read about but cannot really believe until it happens. (Not that I have reached Moksha).
But with this boy it was like: HOLY SH....IT. OMG!! It´s true!

Other than that I´m rather skeptical when people say that they remember things, I often think that it is wishful thinking.

I don´t remember mine. I´ve had a couple of dreams that might be something, but I really have no idea.

Maya
 

DanielR

Active Member
With this little boy, it was so overwhelmingly obvious that there really is no other explanation.
I imagine it was a little like Self Realization, it´s one of these things that we read about but cannot really believe until it happens. (Not that I have reached Moksha).
But with this boy it was like: HOLY SH....IT. OMG!! It´s true!

Other than that I´m rather skeptical when people say that they remember things, I often think that it is wishful thinking.

I don´t remember mine. I´ve had a couple of dreams that might be something, but I really have no idea.

Maya

I sometimes wonder if certain anxieties are an indication of a past life ^^
 

Pleroma

philalethist
Ian Stevenson has indeed researched extensively about children's memories from past lives.

Reincarnation research - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Deducing from this research the conclusion that reincarnation is a proven fact has been listed as an example of pseudoscience by skeptics.[48] Carl Sagan and Arthur C. Clarke felt that reincarnation research work fell short of providing proof of reincarnation (which they both viewed as unlikely). Nevertheless, they felt that further research was warranted. In The Demon-Haunted World (1996), Sagan wrote that claims about reincarnation may have some experimental support, however dubious and inconclusive. He said "at the time of writing, there are three claims in the ESP field that deserve serious study", the third being "young children sometimes report details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation."[49][50] Sagan further stated he picked the three examples not because he thought them valid, but as examples of contentions that might be true.[51] Clarke observed that Stevenson had produced a number of studies that were "hard to explain" conventionally, then noted that accepting reincarnation raised the question of the means for personality transfer.[52] To date no physical process by which a personality could survive death and travel to another body has been identified,[53] which researchers such as Stevenson and Tucker recognize as a limitation.[54] Skeptic Sam Harris said of Stevenson "either he is a victim of truly elaborate fraud, or something interesting is going on."[55]
 
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Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
"young children sometimes report details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation."

I read once that if a young child does tell stories like this, they should be encouraged to tell more. It may reinforce the recollections. Parents often dismiss these stories/recollections as childhood make-believe.
 

DanielR

Active Member
I have a last question,

is liberation or moksha a permanent state in hinduisms or (advaita), or is it possible that 'I' will become manifested again??

Thanks :)
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
As far as I know and am concerned in Advaita, once moksha is achieved, there is no rebirth. This is because the Self is realized. Some Gaudiya Vaishnavas hold the belief that a liberated jiva can fall down again even after attaining Vaikuntha. I don't believe that in the least. I believe moksha is a done deal. But those Gaudiya Vaishnavas are not Advaitin.
 

Shuddhasattva

Well-Known Member
Falldown theory isn't gaudiya, btw, it's an iskcon corruption.

However, I'll take a slightly different (non-traditional advaita, but traditional paradvaita) stance on this one: a liberated being may choose, of their own sovereign and perfect free will (svatantrya) to undergo rebirth in order to bring moksha to those who toil in samsara - or simply to delight in material manifestation, which far from being some sort of cosmic torture chamber from which escape is the only solution, may be redeemed as an eternal, true 'paradise,' non-exclusive from the unmanifest realms of pure consciousness.

When I ask mySelf what the best possible outcome for the universe is, the answer I get is "all patterns of matter, energy and information being arranged so as to give rise to the maximum number of sentient beings, each experiencing infinite bliss and consciousness." It need not be bad place.
 
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Surya Deva

Well-Known Member
Hi DaneilR,

In Advaita there are two realities: Absolute reality and relative reality. Relative reality is illusory in terms of Absolute reality, so if we speak absolutely, then nothing within reality re ishvara, jiva, world exists. So an Advaitin who only accepts the real existence of the absolute reality treats ishva, jiva and world as practical realities. In the same for example we know Newtonian mechanics is actually wrong, but it serves a practical reality so we still use it in applications of everyday mechanics. Now, as long as you are Jiva, you will indeed experience the duality of ishvara and the world and you will indeed experience reincarnation as well. Some Advaitins make a concession to the relative reality by worshiping Ishvara for instance, despite the fact this is against our doctrine and even Krishna says not to worship his unmanfiest form or the Upanishads tell us not to worship the unmanifest. Worshiping Ishvara(Hiryangarbha) or cosmic intelligence is like worshiping your computer. Pure Advaitins do not worship Ishvara and do not believe in real existence of Jiva, free will and reincarnation. Pure Advaitins practice Jnana to end the illusion of relativity reality and attain liberation.

Have you noticed how some people claiming to be Advaitin start defending Ishvara worship and idol worship and literally become obsessed with it? They cease practicing Jnana and start practicing bhakti to ishvara.

Reincarnation breeds an attitude of complacency, "Nevermind, I will do it in my next lifetime" this creates lazy habits in your mind and basically you keep on going round and round the wheel of samsara. This is why the concept of reincarnation can be a hindrance, you must start your practice now, you must have a burning desire for liberation and put all your efforts towards liberation. It is possible to attain enlightenment in a single lifetime for the sincere seeker.
 

Pleroma

philalethist
Have you noticed how some people claiming to be Advaitin start defending Ishvara worship and idol worship and literally become obsessed with it? They cease practicing Jnana and start practicing bhakti to ishvara.

That's your personal incredulity, do you know about Akhanda Upasana?

No Advaiti sees Ishvara as separate from himself. I and Hiranyagarbha are One.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Have you noticed how some people claiming to be Advaitin start defending Ishvara worship and idol worship and literally become obsessed with it? They cease practicing Jnana and start practicing bhakti to ishvara.

Bhagavad-Gita: Chapter 12, Verse 5 with Commentaries of the Four Authorized Vaisnava Sampradayas

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Chapter 12 Verse 5 with commentary by Srila Prabhupada.

For those whose minds are attached to the unmanifested, impersonal feature of the Supreme, advancement is very troublesome. To make progress in that discipline is always difficult for those who are embodied. Bhagavad Gita 12.5

The obstacles facing those devoted to the Impersonal Absolute are far greater; for the way of any unclear ideal is difficult for an embodied being (the body-centred man) to understand or follow. 12.5 (Swami Tapasyananda translation).

A little more:

According to Advaita Vedanta, when man tries to know the attributeless Brahman with his mind, under the influence of Maya, Brahman becomes the Lord. Isvara is Brahman with Maya — the manifested form of Brahman. Adi Shankara uses a metaphor that when the "reflection" of the Cosmic Spirit falls upon the mirror of Maya, it appears as the Ishvara or Supreme Lord. The Ishvara is true only in the pragmatic level. God's actual form in the transcendental level is the Cosmic Spirit.
Advaita Vedanta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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