SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
Good point...let me rethink.
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Does God change his mind...
- Thread starter SaintAugustine
- Start date
Good point...let me rethink.
SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
Interesting take, but I would not call God Static...if anything just the opposite,constantly acting.
What does "acting" mean in a context outside of time? IMO, the word itself requires time... as does the word "constantly".
If God isn't static, then this implies that God is moving or changing relative to some frame of reference. What frame of reference are you using?
Me Myself
Back to my username
God is Tao, as such he is beyond movement or rest.
That said, I agree with madhuri (OMGs how weird!
) and a couple of others:
God cannot "change" his mind, but the manifestations that we see from him can appear to have contradictory purposes.
God is beyond purpose though, because purpose means something that is yet to be, and that is also time. That being, God can only "change his purpose" in the reality of time.
this "change of mind/purpose" though would only be superfuicial, because as said, God knows all, so from his allknowing core he didn´t change, he just manifested everywhere the way it was always meant to be(which is again time, so it´s blury).
That said, I agree with madhuri (OMGs how weird!
) and a couple of others:God cannot "change" his mind, but the manifestations that we see from him can appear to have contradictory purposes.
God is beyond purpose though, because purpose means something that is yet to be, and that is also time. That being, God can only "change his purpose" in the reality of time.
this "change of mind/purpose" though would only be superfuicial, because as said, God knows all, so from his allknowing core he didn´t change, he just manifested everywhere the way it was always meant to be(which is again time, so it´s blury).
Gorax
γοÏαξ à¤à¥à¤°à¤à¥à¤·
To you reverence,
When one starts to wonder about such issue as "Does God change his mind?" one should first ask himself about what is the thing that is called God? The answer to this question will be completely different depending on what is God.
If we talk about your personal tradition, SaintAugustine, which I believe - if I read your username SaintAugustine - is Christian, I would say that the Bible is not the story of God - if by God we mean the Lord who created the universe - but the story of mankind's views about God, or at least, the human point of view on God. This point of view is really interesting because it shows the way each man according to his time and century, regards God - as a dangerous omnipotent God or as a bleeding-hearted Father who witnesses human injustices - which is far more interesting. It makes us understand facts about human behaviour and psychology. This is what is striking in the Bible. In this case, it is not God who changes but the human sight on God.
Should we interpret the Bible as in a more classical analysis, we may say indeed, that God is changing "his" mind through all the books of the Bible - as long as we decide that the authors of all the biblical books were all equal in mind when they started to write down their testimonies, and that was expanded on something like about one millenium. Just imagine the difference of quality of speech in an only one book co-written by Shakespeare and Paul Auster.
Now if I refer to other traditions to define what God means, I may take the Greek-Roman religion for example. A God in this tradition is a representation of some ideal which is not everything, but only one facet of the ETERNAL TO BE. Jupiter, Apollo, Mars, Mercury and Venus are just what the judaism would call: angels. They do not represent the whole, but only one link to the infinite. According to this definition of God, the God may or not be movable. S/he can or not change his/her mind. It depends on the complexity of his/her spiritual symbol. Some of them never change for they imply a specific information or energy. This may explain why Greeks and Romans for instance, are supposed to have been so fatalist: their immovable Gods were like iron walls enclosing mankind in the prison of destiny.
If we define God as the God of philosophers, which may be closer to my point of view for IT is described in the IDEAS, I would say that this God - but I don't like to call IT God - well this "God" is absolutely not changing ITS mind. I think SaintAugustine, that when you say "change his mind" you mean "change the object of his desire". So in this case, I would say that it is not. I won't say it's impossible. Everything is possible to the VERB. And everything happens through the VERB. But I don't believe that the VERB has desires. IT has more than that. Desires are creatures feelings. If everything happens, it means that the VERB wants everything to happen. So everything happens; in our world or in another reality. But the VERB doesn't want something in particuliar more than the other ones.
Thus, if there is no desire greater than another one in the VERB, nothing about ITS desire may change. So "God" doesn't change his mind. But, as the VERB allows everything to happen, there may be Gods - or I would say, human images of the VERB - who may change their minds. This is why such human image of "God" in the Bible may change its mind without any contradiction with the fact that the ETERNAL LORD is stable and non-moving.
To you serenity,
Gorax
When one starts to wonder about such issue as "Does God change his mind?" one should first ask himself about what is the thing that is called God? The answer to this question will be completely different depending on what is God.
If we talk about your personal tradition, SaintAugustine, which I believe - if I read your username SaintAugustine - is Christian, I would say that the Bible is not the story of God - if by God we mean the Lord who created the universe - but the story of mankind's views about God, or at least, the human point of view on God. This point of view is really interesting because it shows the way each man according to his time and century, regards God - as a dangerous omnipotent God or as a bleeding-hearted Father who witnesses human injustices - which is far more interesting. It makes us understand facts about human behaviour and psychology. This is what is striking in the Bible. In this case, it is not God who changes but the human sight on God.
Should we interpret the Bible as in a more classical analysis, we may say indeed, that God is changing "his" mind through all the books of the Bible - as long as we decide that the authors of all the biblical books were all equal in mind when they started to write down their testimonies, and that was expanded on something like about one millenium. Just imagine the difference of quality of speech in an only one book co-written by Shakespeare and Paul Auster.
Now if I refer to other traditions to define what God means, I may take the Greek-Roman religion for example. A God in this tradition is a representation of some ideal which is not everything, but only one facet of the ETERNAL TO BE. Jupiter, Apollo, Mars, Mercury and Venus are just what the judaism would call: angels. They do not represent the whole, but only one link to the infinite. According to this definition of God, the God may or not be movable. S/he can or not change his/her mind. It depends on the complexity of his/her spiritual symbol. Some of them never change for they imply a specific information or energy. This may explain why Greeks and Romans for instance, are supposed to have been so fatalist: their immovable Gods were like iron walls enclosing mankind in the prison of destiny.
If we define God as the God of philosophers, which may be closer to my point of view for IT is described in the IDEAS, I would say that this God - but I don't like to call IT God - well this "God" is absolutely not changing ITS mind. I think SaintAugustine, that when you say "change his mind" you mean "change the object of his desire". So in this case, I would say that it is not. I won't say it's impossible. Everything is possible to the VERB. And everything happens through the VERB. But I don't believe that the VERB has desires. IT has more than that. Desires are creatures feelings. If everything happens, it means that the VERB wants everything to happen. So everything happens; in our world or in another reality. But the VERB doesn't want something in particuliar more than the other ones.
Thus, if there is no desire greater than another one in the VERB, nothing about ITS desire may change. So "God" doesn't change his mind. But, as the VERB allows everything to happen, there may be Gods - or I would say, human images of the VERB - who may change their minds. This is why such human image of "God" in the Bible may change its mind without any contradiction with the fact that the ETERNAL LORD is stable and non-moving.
To you serenity,
Gorax
SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
Gorax,
Clearly you have arrived at the right message board...first I loved your brief but concise take on how God functions in various time and cultures. I found the phrase, "change the object of his desire" very interesting. Equally interesting
"In this case, it is not God who changes but the human sight on God." Your final summation the Verb vs God's stability fascinating..you are part theologian, part natural philosopher..
Clearly you have arrived at the right message board...first I loved your brief but concise take on how God functions in various time and cultures. I found the phrase, "change the object of his desire" very interesting. Equally interesting
"In this case, it is not God who changes but the human sight on God." Your final summation the Verb vs God's stability fascinating..you are part theologian, part natural philosopher..
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
I don't think God changes its mind, otherwise its not omniscient.
Its knowledge is perfect, and does not require any change.
SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
True.
SaintAugustine
At the Monastery
and believe me its been done. In my own tradition, we seperate private revelation from public revelation. Lets say God himself comes down and visits you....you have received the revelation not I. And I am not under obligation to believe you.
God chose to create all as free moral agents.
We have His gift of voluntary free-will choices. [Deut. 30v19;32v5]
Just as you might change your mind about a person whose behavior turns wicked, then God would have to change in response to the changing behavior.
That is in harmony with God's never-changing standards of His love and justice.
God does not change his mind in regard to his eternal purpose for earth to bless mankind by means of Christ Jesus as being king of God's kingdom.
-Genesis 12v3;22v18;Rev.22v2;Psalm 72v8
So, biblical examples show that different instructions or directions do not mean God changes his mind regarding his eternal purpose,
but God responds to our free-will choices under varying circumstances for the benefit of the humble meek of the earth.
-Matt. 25vs31,32,40
Satyamavejayanti
Well-Known Member
Then God is not omniscient.
He has never changing mind but changes his mind for people?????
But if he was omniscient he would already know the varying circumstances. Why does he have to change his mind according to the whims of humans?
I would agree it be best for god to give himself freewill if he were to remain all powerful.