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Katzpur said:You know your D&C better than I do, then. What are 25 and 76 about?
I'll admit it (and then go to bed). I typed my response, but before submitting it I went to www.lds.org to double checkbeckysoup61 said:I was going to say the same thing.
Cheater.SoyLeche said:I'll admit it (and then go to bed). I typed my response, but before submitting it I went to www.lds.org to double check
Then why did Jesus turn the water into wine instead of grape juice?
FFH said:Doctrine and Covenants 89: 5-6
5- That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.
6- And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.
Pure wine has an alcohol content of less than 1%.
Today's wine's have an alcohol content of 11% - 13%, because of the yeast that is added to convert all of the naturally occurring sugars into alcohol.
Well, an investigator would obviously need to know before he became very seriously interested. One thing I've always thought was kind of odd is the fact that we refuse to baptize someone who doesn't observe the Word of Wisdom, and yet once a person is a member, not keeping the Word of Wisdom is not grounds for excommunication. Does anybody else see the disparity here?beckysoup61 said:Another discussion question...do you think it hurts or helps potential investiagtors and non-members to know that we don't drink coffee and tea, etc.?
Katzpur said:Well, an investigator would obviously need to know before he became very seriously interested. One thing I've always thought was kind of odd is the fact that we refuse to baptize someone who doesn't observe the Word of Wisdom, and yet once a person is a member, not keeping the Word of Wisdom is not grounds for excommunication. Does anybody else see the disparity here?
See post #19.beckysoup61 said:Um, I don't think anyone asked this question.
EnhancedSpirit said:Then why did Jesus turn the water into wine instead of grapejuice?
"God makes grass grow for the cattle, and plants for man to cultivate - bringing forth food from the earth: wine that gladdens the heart of man, oil to make his face shine, and bread that sustains his heart." (Psalm 104:14-15)
Katzpur said:Well, an investigator would obviously need to know before he became very seriously interested. One thing I've always thought was kind of odd is the fact that we refuse to baptize someone who doesn't observe the Word of Wisdom, and yet once a person is a member, not keeping the Word of Wisdom is not grounds for excommunication. Does anybody else see the disparity here?
I don't know, it just seems kind of funny to me that a person would have to live the Word of Wisdom in order to get baptized but once he'd been baptized, he could stop living it and not be excommunicated.nutshell said:No. There are many things that do not warrant excommunication. What if I don't pay my tithing or I'm struggling with my testimony of the restored priesthood. What if I don't go to Church or pay fast offerings. What if I don't read the Book of Mormon. These are things committed to by investigators before they are baptized, but not doing any one of these things is grounds for excommunication.
Katzpur said:I don't know, it just seems kind of funny to me that a person would have to live the Word of Wisdom in order to get baptized but once he'd been baptized, he could stop living it and not be excommunicated.
I guess maybe I didn't realize that you had to commit to go to Church, to read the Book of Mormon, etc. before getting baptized. But with respect to tithing, I just never gave it that much thought. Obviously, what you're saying makes sense. I know new converts have to commit to pay their tithing. I guess there really isn't any difference.nutshell said:Right. And as I mentioned that's true for many things. What makes the WoW stand out for you?
IMO, we have way too many less-active members as it is. You are probably a lot more likely to go inactive if you are not willing to keep the promisses that you will make at baptism. One of those promisses is to keep the commandments, of which the WoW is one.Katzpur said:I guess maybe I didn't realize that you had to commit to go to Church, to read the Book of Mormon, etc. before getting baptized. But with respect to tithing, I just never gave it that much thought. Obviously, what you're saying makes sense. I know new converts have to commit to pay their tithing. I guess there really isn't any difference.
SoyLeche said:IMO, we have way too many less-active members as it is. You are probably a lot more likely to go inactive if you are not willing to keep the promisses that you will make at baptism. One of those promisses is to keep the commandments, of which the WoW is one.
Another thing I was thinking about is - let's say I'm a missionary teaching an investigator. We teach about the WoW, but then allow them to be baptised while they are still drinking their morning cup of coffee. That starts to look like "well, the WoW is a good idea, but it must not be all that important."
I'm giving a "what if" scenario. I guess I wasn't clear. We don't do that, and I'm trying to explain why I think we don't.nutshell said:Where does that happen? In my mission no one passed the interview unless they demonstrated that they had "a broken heart and contrite spirit." One way they demonstrated this was keeping the commitments they had made. If someone was still drinking coffee they would not be baptised.
SoyLeche said:I'm giving a "what if" scenario. I guess I wasn't clear. We don't do that, and I'm trying to explain why I think we don't.