Doctors Letter - Covid Shutdown Effects

[Shadow Wolf]

Sorry about the typo errors, my original claim didn't make any sense; the corrected version should now make totally perfect sense. ..

The issue isn't typos, it's you didn't provide evidence to support your claim.

Suicide rates were doubled during the economic depression of the 1930's, that cost the lives of 55 Americans on average each day, over the course of two years these 40,000 people might have cut their lives short by an overall average of 10,000 days each. 40,000 times 10,000 days equals 400 million days of human life. Whereas, extending 400,000 lives by an overall average of 250 days each equals 100 million days of human life.

That's not evidence, that's **** you pulled out of your ***.

 

[Salvador]

The issue isn't typos, it's you didn't provide evidence to support your claim.

That's not evidence, that's **** you pulled out of your ***.

"During the Great Depression of the late 1920s, suicide rates in the United States reached an all-time high, topping 22 suicides per 100,000 persons"; this is double the suicide rate compared to what this was when we had Trumped up economic boom.

Social Fact: The Great Depressions? - The Society Pages

A doubling of suicides over a two year period of economic depression means 40,000 lives each cut short by an overall average of at least 30 years; that's equal to 1.2 million years of lost human lives. Whereas, tanking the economy by massive quarantining in order to slow the spread of C.O.V.I.D.resulting in 400,000 people from getting the SARS-Cov2 virus in next year's phase of this pandemic as opposed to being infected by the Wuhan virus during this year's phase of this pandemic would result in no more than 400,000 years of human life being saved.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"During the Great Depression of the late 1920s, suicide rates in the United States reached an all-time high, topping 22 suicides per 100,000 persons"; this is double the suicide rate compared to what this was when we had Trumped up economic boom.

Social Fact: The Great Depressions? - The Society Pages

That is not evidence of your claim.

The human toll of lost lives by massive quarantining seems to me to be far greater than the cost of 400,000 lives each being saved by an average period of less than one year.

Stuff about the Depression is worthless in supporting this claim.

 

[Salvador]

That is not evidence of your claim.

Stuff about the Depression is worthless in supporting this claim.

The point I'd like to make here is an economic depression could cause 40,000 people to cut their lives short by a cumulative 1.2 million years. Whereas, slowing down the spread of the corona-virus in order to prolong the lives of 400,000 people, who'd end up being C.O.V.I.D. infected and killed by this corona virus anyways within a year. would save a cumulative 400,000 years of human life. Hence, suicide caused by a severe economic depression could end up costing three times as much human life in terms of years than the amount of human life in terms of years saved by slowing down the spread of C.O.V.I.D.caused by an economic shutdown and consequential recession.

Would you rather save 40,000 healthy young adult people in the prime of their lives or 400,000 illness prone persons each with less than one year of remaining life expectancy?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The point I'd like to make here is an economic depression could cause 40,000 people to cut their lives short by a cumulative 1.2 million years. Whereas, slowing down the spread of the corona-virus in order to prolong the lives of 400,000 people, who'd end up being C.O.V.I.D. infected and killed by this corona virus anyways within a year. would save a cumulative 400,000 years of human life. Hence, suicide caused by a severe economic depression could end up costing three times as much human life in terms of years than the amount of human life in terms of years saved by slowing down the spread of C.O.V.I.D.caused by an economic shutdown and consequential recession.

Would you rather save 40,000 healthy young adult people in the prime of their lives or 400,000 illness prone persons each with less than one year of remaining life expectancy?

I'd rather not pull **** out of my *** and pretend it's anything other than that.

 

[Salvador]

I'd rather not pull **** out of my *** and pretend it's anything other than that.

There's no more being pretentious than like pretending keeping the economic lock down in place actually saves more lives rather than being more costly in terms of human life. ...:

 

[Kenny]

Do NOT turn away from these pictures. Look at the dead. Look at what even slow responses caused.

Things are hard on us all. Without these restrictions, far more of us would be in bags, cremated, dying alone and no one to gather and mourn least they risk catching what killed the recently deceased. Its not like these decisions were made lightly. Thks is a crisis, against an enemy we cannot see and that we are still largely and mostly powerless against.

I think balance is the key.

Example: We know that speed limits are good but, even though we know people will still die, we don't eliminate cars because tens of millions would be adversely affected by the thousands that we know will die. Though we mourn those that die, we understand that there is still a risk once we get behind our own steering wheel. We also don't give drivers license to the 13 year olds or those who no longer have the presence of capacity at the other end of the life span. Why? Those are the high-risk categories.

We know that the elderly are the high risk population. But, it doesn't call for affecting the hundreds of millions of people for the 100,000 that will pass away.

And then you have the weighted thought... "So, because I couldn't diagnose my cancer early (because of Covid-19), are you saying my life is less worthy than the one who may get the virus?"

 

[Wandering Monk]

Suicide rates were doubled during the economic depression of the 1930's, that cost the lives of 55 Americans on average each day, over the course of two years these 40,000 people might have cut their lives short by an overall average of 10,000 days each. 40,000 times 10,000 days equals 400 million days of human life. (edit)***Whereas, extending 400,000 lives by an overall average of 250 days each equals 100 million days of human life.***

***Whereas, extending 400,000 lives by an overall average of 250 days each equals 100 million days of human life.*** edited from original version typo/error of....Whereas, saving 800 lives a day by over the course of 500 days equals 800400,000 days of human life.

Here I thought we were talking about CURRENT events.

 

[Kenny]

I knew this propaganda was coming - it was reported in the media already.

And of course, the fantasy numbers that the human impact of dealing with the pandemic is costing more than 1200 lives per day is just that - fantasy. And if the death toll due to more opening rises to 2000 per day, the fantasy number will be adjusted accordingly

The something wicked is Emperor Donald who is now threatening states that he'll cut off money if they don't toe the line on suppressing the vote this November.

Tell that

I'm not sure, Sun rise, as to what is fantasy and what isn't.

Some of the world's airlines could go bankrupt because of the COVID-19 crisis, according to an aviation consultancy. See the carriers that have already collapsed because of the pandemic.

This is just one area. Is it fantasy? The consequences of personal income elimination and the resulting loss of homes? Is it fantasy?

 

[Kenny]

The rich are annoyed that they can't expand their yacht fleets as quickly as they could before the pandemic, so they feed silly propaganda like this to the working classes in an attempt to convince them that it's worth tossing grandma in a body bag as long as the money continues flowing upward.

Yes, the situation sucks, but ignoring a deady disease would make things worse, not better.
Besides, whatever happened to this rugged, independent, self-reliant culture of the right? It's ironic that these tough guy survivalist prepper types are the first to turn into total pussies once the **** hit the fan.

But there are a growing number of doctors that are disagreeing with your position. Cause and effect should be considered, IMO.

 

[Kenny]

Right, and they never gave a damn about people struggling in poverty before the pandemic, but now they care all of the sudden? And of course they've always opposed plans and programs that would've acted as a safety net for situations like this. If they didn't care about suffering before, they shouldn't pretend to care about it now, because that makes it obvious what this is really about.

Do you have a site or statistics to support that people didn't care before the pandemic? I care. Salvation Army cares. All the churches I know of care. As a matter of fact, Christians (many who are Republicans AND Democrats) are the biggest donors of "caring".

 

[Kenny]

Here I thought we were talking about CURRENT events.

A crisis mental-health hotline has seen an 891% spike in calls - CNN

891% increase in calls. Current enough? How much of it is because or unlimited irrational lockdowns vs. calm thinking and targeted lockdowns?

 

[Twilight Hue]

I knew this propaganda was coming - it was reported in the media already.

And of course, the fantasy numbers that the human impact of dealing with the pandemic is costing more than 1200 lives per day is just that - fantasy. And if the death toll due to more opening rises to 2000 per day, the fantasy number will be adjusted accordingly

The something wicked is Emperor Donald who is now threatening states that he'll cut off money if they don't toe the line on suppressing the vote this November.

What you consider as "propaganda" is a hard cold fact for a lot more people than you think.

 

[Father Heathen]

But there are a growing number of doctors that are disagreeing with your position. Cause and effect should be considered, IMO.

I'll wait for an objective consensus rather than politically motivated distortion.

 

[Father Heathen]

Do you have a site or statistics to support that people didn't care before the pandemic? I care. Salvation Army cares. All the churches I know of care. As a matter of fact, Christians (many who are Republicans AND Democrats) are the biggest donors of "caring".

Do I really have to list the social/economic policies and platforms that conservatives have typically voted for?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We know that the elderly are the high risk population. But, it doesn't call for affecting the hundreds of millions of people for the 100,000 that will pass away.

EVERYONE is at risk. Even healthy teenagers with no health issues or concerns have died. This virus doesn't care if you are young or old. Repeating things such as that post is why so many falsely believe young adults, teens, and kids are basically immune, invulnerable, and have nothing to worry about. But they too are getting very ill, suffering horribly, and spending time recovering that stretches beyond having the virus in their system.

There's no more being pretentious than like pretending keeping the economic lock down in place actually saves more lives rather than being more costly in terms of human life. ...:

Keep in mind, you want us to take you seriously, but you posted stuff about the recession as evidence to support a claim about today
And all experts disagree with you. I wont even bother asking you your credentials on this, because I know yours are utterly unimportant. You think lockdowns are more destructive, they actually save lives.
Lockdown Delays Led to at Least 36,000 More Deaths, Models Find

A crisis mental-health hotline has seen an 891% spike in calls - CNN

891% increase in calls. Current enough? How much of it is because or unlimited irrational lockdowns vs. calm thinking and targeted lockdowns?

People are frightened. We are amidst a crises. But enabling the crises to dobits absolute worst will not help. Amd sense when do Conservatives and Republicans really care? They are, more often than not, the bane of my profession as they hack and slash at funds for medical stuff (stuff as research and insurance). Voting Democrat was basically a vote to protect my clients and their healthcare. Because who wants us to have poor access to healthcare and be at the mercy of the market for insurance? Reps and Cons. Who says its all the head? Reps and Cons. Who condemns psychology as non sense, pseudo science, and dangerous nonsense that poses a threat to the moral fabric ofnsociety? Reps and Cons.
And keep in mind, those calls aren't justvover the lockdown. A lot of people are scared of the virus. They are scared for their loved ones. A number of Christians are convinced and anxious this is their Armageddon.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What you consider as "propaganda" is a hard cold fact for a lot more people than you think.

The cold, hard facts are the dead who are cold and stiff from a lack of a beating heart due to covid.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The cold, hard facts are the dead who are cold and stiff from a lack of a beating heart due to covid.

You can't stop something like that from killing people. There's no cure so it's going to kill anyways and even then, the vast majority people will survive it. And yes, that includes the aged and infirmed.

If you didn't know, death is a fact of life. Just thought I'd give a reminder on that.

 

[Kenny]

Do I really have to list the social/economic policies and platforms that conservatives have typically voted for?

Hmmm.... if you want to look at it simplistically.

So... IF, a weighted scale on a subject matter vs platform is the following (taking into consideration possibilities) first Republican and then Democrat platforms (looking at both sides of the coin vs what you suggest above - as I view what I thin you are saying regardless of my statement that Christian Republicans DO help people)

1) I believe in helping people but I believe more in helping unborn children. Democratic party platform help everybody but kill babies in the womb. Republican party platform help some people but don't kill babies in the womb

2) I believe helping all immigrants but I believe more in limited Government. Democratic party platform what more government but help more immigrants - Republican party platform help less immigrants (just those who are legal) but want less government.

So, in these two scenarios - it isn't a black and white situation and will vote Republican even though they don't agree with all the policies.

visa-versa

1) I believe in more helping people but than I do helping unborn children. Democratic party platform help everybody but kill babies in the womb. Republican party platform help some people but don't kill babies in the womb

2) I believe helping all immigrants but I believe more in limited Government. Democratic party platform what more government but help more immigrants - Republican party platform help less immigrants (just those who are legal) and want less government.

This person will vote Democrat - just because the have to make a decision.


your position.

If you vote a party nominee you agree with EVERYTHING they stand for. Broad paint brush but not real life.

 

[Kenny]

EVERYONE is at risk. Even healthy teenagers with no health issues or concerns have died. This virus doesn't care if you are young or old. Repeating things such as that post is why so many falsely believe young adults, teens, and kids are basically immune, invulnerable, and have nothing to worry about. But they too are getting very ill, suffering horribly, and spending time recovering that stretches beyond having the virus in their system.

I am just addressing this just because you are soooo way out there than it seem that rationality was thrown out of the window.

1) I said THE HIGHEST RISK group is the older people - just as young people and older people are higher risk in driving
2) The virus doesn't care if you are young or old... and NO MONEY, NO JOB, NO HOUSE, NO FOOD because you shut down everything also doesn't care if you are young or old. You can recovery more quickly from the virus than you can from NO MONEY, NO JOB, NO HOUSE AND NO FOOD

Fear has a way of limiting the thinking process. I still stand by my position. Be careful with the High Risk group, open the doors for provision, and still wash you hands and don't cough on someone's face.