Do you know God?

[kjw47]

The Jews were chosen by their God. The Father chose mankind. The Jews offered first. Then Jews and Gentiles all. To say that the OT was the Jews (only) God then a God that Jesus said was for the (whole) world, is to say that God changed, which he doesn't.

The God the Jews saw and the God Jesus taught (Father) is not the same God, as Jesus clearly states. The Jews followed "angels", not the Father.

John 5:
36 But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me.
37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.

The Jews never knew the Father. They knew the God who promised a nation (flesh) following a law (of flesh). It was offered to Jesus as well.(temptation in the desert).

Mark:
17 And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Jesus corrects them that they are NOT the chosen nation. God was meant for all. The Jews were thieves.

John 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

The Jews who were saints (who followed the prophets) were saved at the resurrection of the dead by Jesus. Matthew 27:52-53. Only their faith saved them, since the Spirit hadn't been given (to them). The Spirit was given to all men.

The only "chosen" are those who accept the son, which the Jews don't.

I see a clarity based on Gospel, not the OT.

There is only one God--ot-nt--he did not change.The religion that came out of Rome changed him.
In the OT--others were allowed to worship in the Isralite religion. Ruth was a moabitess--They served false gods--She served the true God along with Israel.

 

[kjw47]

Funny: all the times you argued for your denomination's dogma suggested to me that you care deeply about religious dogma.

My teachers back there words with the bible.

 

[kjw47]

The promise was fulfilled in 1844.

The Bab (Gate) prepared the way for Baha'u'llah (Glory of God, or Glory of the Lord).

That was Christ, the Son, returned in the Glory of His Father, Baha'u'llah.

Yes there is One God and He has come in the Greatest Name.

Christ has warned us this would not be easily accepted.

Regards Tony

Not the truth presented in the bible.

 

[kjw47]

You say Jesus said, "Go make disciples".

19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,+baptizing them+ in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,

https://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/matthew/28/

Isn't someone who is a disciple listen to and follow Jesus?

Yes that is true--He did not say--force anyone to follow. ALL must choose with their free will to follow.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My teachers back there words with the bible.

IOW, you try to base your dogma on the Bible.

Doesn't make it not dogma.

 

[savagewind]

Yes that is true--He did not say--force anyone to follow. ALL must choose with their free will to follow.

Why not you tell us, please, how this definition of "force", which just means the energy it takes to move something, isn't the same as make?

Force; 18.
to compel, constrain, or oblige (oneself or someone) to do something

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/force

 

[Phantasman]

There is only one God--ot-nt--he did not change.The religion that came out of Rome changed him.
In the OT--others were allowed to worship in the Isralite religion. Ruth was a moabitess--They served false gods--She served the true God along with Israel.

I guess it's all in the perspective. I see a God who wanted to destroy the world , then a God who wanted to save the world. If you see the same god in both, so be it. Maybe he changes his mind.

I don't see the Father killing any man. That would make him a murderer. Jesus said that the father of the Jews was not the Father because he lied and murdered.

Follow Ruth if you wish. I'll follow the Holy Spirit. Something Ruth didn't have.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Not the truth presented in the bible.

The Bible supports 100% what was offered, thus poses the question to you;

"Do you know God".

Many claim they do, I do not, but Baha'u'llah does answer that question.

Regards Tony

 

[savagewind]

@kjw47 According to you and the Watchtower what is the reason why what was heard at first by The Holy Spirit and then written down for our eternal benefit according to The Holy Spirit wasn't BE MY DISCIPLES?

What does it mean to be a disciple? Does it not mean; to be a worthy representation of what it means to worship The True God, Jehovah?

Why, according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses do you have to add "MAKE" to that?

Matthew 28:19

New International Version
Therefore go and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

New Living Translation
Therefore, go and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

English Standard Version
Go therefore and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
Therefore go and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore having gone, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
"Go therefore and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Go, therefore, and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

International Standard Version
Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

NET Bible
Therefore go and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

New Heart English Bible
Therefore go, and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Therefore go disciple all the nations and baptize them in the name of The Father and The Son and The Spirit of Holiness.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
So wherever you go, make disciple of all nations: Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

New American Standard 1977
“Go therefore and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Jubilee Bible 2000
Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

King James 2000 Bible
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit:

American King James Version
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

American Standard Version
Go ye therefore, and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Darby Bible Translation
Go [therefore] and make disciple of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;

English Revised Version
Go ye therefore, and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost:

Webster's Bible Translation
Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Weymouth New Testament
Go therefore and make disciple of all the nations; baptize them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;

World English Bible
Go, and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Young's Literal Translation
having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

And, the winner is........Young's Literal Translation

 

[Phantasman]

@kjw47 According to you and the Watchtower what is the reason why what was heard at first by The Holy Spirit and then written down for our eternal benefit according to The Holy Spirit wasn't BE MY DISCIPLES?

What does it mean to be a disciple? Does it not mean; to be a worthy representation of what it means to worship The True God, Jehovah?

Why, according to the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses do you have to add "MAKE" to that?

Matthew 28:19

New International Version
Therefore go and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

New Living Translation
Therefore, go and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.

English Standard Version
Go therefore and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Study Bible
Therefore go and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

Berean Literal Bible
Therefore having gone, disciple all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

New American Standard Bible
"Go therefore and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

King James Bible
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Go, therefore, and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

International Standard Version
Therefore, as you go, disciple people in all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit,

NET Bible
Therefore go and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

New Heart English Bible
Therefore go, and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
“Therefore go disciple all the nations and baptize them in the name of The Father and The Son and The Spirit of Holiness.”

GOD'S WORD® Translation
So wherever you go, make disciple of all nations: Baptize them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

New American Standard 1977
“Go therefore and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Jubilee Bible 2000
Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

King James 2000 Bible
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit:

American King James Version
Go you therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

American Standard Version
Go ye therefore, and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit:

Douay-Rheims Bible
Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

Darby Bible Translation
Go [therefore] and make disciple of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;

English Revised Version
Go ye therefore, and make disciple of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost:

Webster's Bible Translation
Go ye therefore and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Weymouth New Testament
Go therefore and make disciple of all the nations; baptize them into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit;

World English Bible
Go, and make disciple of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

Young's Literal Translation
having gone, then, disciple all the nations, (baptizing them -- to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,

And, the winner is........Young's Literal Translation

Much ado about nothing. What is "name"? What is "disciple"?

Without understanding, you cannot be a disciple. Because the "name" makes the disciple. Not a name as men see (like Jesus, Joe and Sam).
Luke 14:26:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

 

[Fool]

Jesus warned that most wouldn't know him at John 15:20-21--the Father= YHWH(Jehovah)= the ONLY true God-- Jesus said-John 17:3--It just takes believing Jesus over religious dogma. Few will. I cannot understand it.

god can only be known by knowing thyself.

12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is revealed in us.

Hear O'Israel the Lord is ONE.

1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.


Luke 11:52
“Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”

Psalm 46:10
He says, “Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.”

 

[Fool]

Much ado about nothing. What is "name"? What is "disciple"?

Without understanding, you cannot be a disciple. Because the "name" makes the disciple. Not a name as men see (like Jesus, Joe and Sam).
Luke 14:26:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

immersion, or meditation, of the name is to know god for self. as self. the key to knowledge is to enter into god's temple, the way is inward. the kingdom of god doesn't come without, outside, separate from self.

Psalm 118:26
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. From the house of the Lord we bless you.

 

[savagewind]

Much ado about nothing. What is "name"? What is "disciple"?

Without understanding, you cannot be a disciple. Because the "name" makes the disciple. Not a name as men see (like Jesus, Joe and Sam).
Luke 14:26:
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

The Bible says that it is the will of The Father for you to MAKE a person hate his father, mother, wife, children, brethren, sisters and his own life.

Do you really still not get it?

 

[savagewind]

Much ado about nothing.

That is interesting because destruction is in store for all those who are not with God's Word.

 

[Phantasman]

immersion, or meditation, of the name is to know god for self. as self. the key to knowledge is to enter into god's temple, the way is inward. the kingdom of god doesn't come without, outside, separate from self.

Psalm 118:26
Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord. From the house of the Lord we bless you.

Not an OT believer. You don't enter into Gods temple, you become Gods temple.

 

[Phantasman]

god can only be known by knowing thyself.

12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is revealed in us.

Hear O'Israel the Lord is ONE.

1 John 4:20
Whoever claims to love God yet hates a brother or sister is a liar. For whoever does not love their brother and sister, whom they have seen, cannot love God, whom they have not seen.


Luke 11:52
“Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”

Psalm 46:10
He says, “Be still, and know that I am God; I will be exalted among the nations, I will be exalted in the earth.”

Good post even with the stick in the spokes.

Gospel of Thomas gives a clearer image:
(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

David didn't know God the Father. You have to know the son to know the Father. I don't waste time (anymore) trying to make the OT work. The OT was done with the words "it is finished".

 

[Phantasman]

That is interesting because destruction is in store for all those who are not with God's Word.

Not by the Father. The perishable will perish (on it's own).

Sophia of Jesus Christ:
He called out, saying: "Whoever has ears to hear about the infinities, let him hear!"; and "I have addressed those who are awake." Still he continued and said: "Everything that came from the perishable will perish, since it came from the perishable. But whatever came from imperishableness does not perish but becomes imperishable. So, many men went astray because they had not known this difference and they died."

Perishable was never perfect. The universe/earth will decay to nothing because it was created by imperfection.

We seek to be made perfect:
Matthew:
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

1 Corinthians 13:
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

We seek to know as much as possible. This is the path of Christian gnosis. It is spiritual.

 

[kjw47]

IOW, you try to base your dogma on the Bible.

Doesn't make it not dogma.

It is easy for one to see a -- mass of confusion called 34,000 religions claiming to be Christian. Yet only one is. 1Corinthians 1:10)-- Unity of thought-no division. Only one has Jesus the rest do not. How does one find it. That is simple----Learn all that Jesus taught and apply it--then one sees clearer. Here is a major truth he taught that Few bother to do= Man does NOT live by bread alone, but by EVERY utterance from God. = OT-NT--over and over, year after year. One still needs help on certain truths. They must be taught by the real teachers of Jesus--the faithful and discreet slave giving food( spiritual) at the proper time. This will apply to those as it did to the apostles-Luke 10:16)-- sadly are rejected because they do not fit in. They are taught to be no part of this world. ( As best can be done)
Jesus clearly sent his followers out by 2-- house to house--city to city. With--The good news of Gods kingdom and king.* Luke 10--Acts 20:20,, Matt 24:14)) And here in these last days it began again. It doesn't stop until the end.

 

[Fool]

Not an OT believer. You don't enter into Gods temple, you become Gods temple.

consciousness flows bi-directional. outwardly isn't the way to the kingdom

noah's ark > ark of the covenant > solomon's temple > the body temple.

 

[Fool]

Good post even with the stick in the spokes.

Gospel of Thomas gives a clearer image:
(3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

David didn't know God the Father. You have to know the son to know the Father. I don't waste time (anymore) trying to make the OT work. The OT was done with the words "it is finished".

malachi knew the son

Malachi 2:10
[ Breaking Covenant Through Divorce ] Do we not all have one Father? Did not one God create us? Why do we profane the covenant of our ancestors by being unfaithful to one another?


knowing the son is knowing self as god's offspring.


Acts 17:28
‘For in him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are his offspring.’


we don't live and move apart, separate, outside, or without him