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Do you call yourself a 'Panentheist'?

Discussion in 'Pantheism-Panentheism DIR' started by Tyho, Apr 10, 2015.

  1. Nefelie

    Nefelie Member

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    He is not entirely wrong. Like I said before, for a Greek Orthodox Christian “god is everywhere and within everything”. That's pretty much Pantheistic. ;)
     
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  2. Kapyong

    Kapyong Disgusted

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    Gday all,

    Well yes, I call myself a panentheist :)

    God is everywhere and in everything,
    but is yet much more than that.

    Sometimes I call myself a Spinozan Panentheist.

    Spinoza rejects pantheism in a letter to Henry Oldenburg : "as to the view of certain people that I identify god with nature (taken as a kind of mass or corporeal matter), they are quite mistaken".

    But describes something rather panentheistic - the underlying substance of all (called 'God or Nature') is expressed through the modes of Thought and Existence. (Mind you, he can be rather confusing :( )

    Which captures the idea that All is part of the Mind of God.


    Kapyong
     
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  3. idav

    idav Being
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    Thats a real interesting take. I tend to think awareness is a little more involved within nature itself, which would be "mind". I really like the spinozan take and I've heard it argued he was more panentheistic.
     
  4. SuperSaiyanBlue616

    SuperSaiyanBlue616 New Member

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    Panentheist here. Man, I wish there were more panentheists out there, especially some sort of congregation for panentheists and other "freethinkers" to assemble, but unfortunately, that's just not the world I live in! As an alternative, I simply go to a church, and while I don't believe it is the "one true religion", I still agree with many of its moral teachings and church gives me a sense of fellowship and incites my own spiritual development. During prayer, I simply meditate since I don't believe God somehow answers prayers. However, religion is declining, and Western culture is becoming increasingly secular, so I think eventually, this greater number of non-religious people will begin to seek rational alternatives to religion and freethinking congregations will spring up. Hopefully!
     
  5. Breathe

    Breathe Hostis humani generis

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    I do call myself a panentheist if it comes up, yeah. I explain it in a little bit more detail if necessary.
     
  6. Samantha Rinne

    Samantha Rinne Active Member

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    I call myself a Christian in polite society, but I'm more a Panentheist. I'm influenced by Christian writings (references to the Body of Christ), but to me the idea of a Savior is less important than understand that the divine being all around us, already acts as Savior. To me, much of the specific dogma of Christianity is secondary to my understanding of how the divine is part of all things and therefore self-evident.
     
  7. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

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    No. Two reasons:

    - The definition doesn't really make sense to me.
    Pantheism: deity = all
    Panentheism: deity = all + x
    But what is x if not part of all as well?

    - Most versions of panentheism see to refer to a personal deity.


    As to how I call my religion when talking to other people in real life, I normally just say I'm an agnostic, depending on the situation also that I'm a pantheist.
     
  8. dmap

    dmap God is good and beautiful

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    When speaking to Christians I call myself a Catholic (I am a member after all, and it annoys the fundamentalist evangelical Protestants). When speaking to others I just say I believe in God. They usually don't want to discuss philosophy anyway; no sense disturbing them.
     
  9. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
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    I consider myself a pantheist and panentheist at the same time. They are not mutually exclusive, as found in the Bhagavad Gita, especially chapters 9 and 10.
     
  10. steveb1

    steveb1 Member

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    Coming in here 'way late, but for what it's worth -

    From a Western/philosophical point of view I define myself as a panentheist.

    I believe that God is real, and is both "here" (immanent) and "more than here" (transcendent).

    Panentheism does not require that I believe that God, in order to exist or in order to be God, must be a creator or an intervener. The world moves according to its own rules, without having been created or tampered with by God.

    This relieves my God-definition from the theodicy hook. A theodicy is a model which attempts to explain evil and the persistence of evil in a world supposedly created by an all-powerful deity. Since my definition eschews the view of God as an all-powerful creator, God cannot be praised or blamed for the existence and/or the condition of a world that God never created to begin with.

    If only the current God debate could move beyond its insistence that God must be a creator and/or an intervener, panentheism is there to take up the slack.
     
  11. FooYang

    FooYang Active Member

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    Panentheism is the most redundant category of all because it is just Monotheism, period. However Monotheism itself is also a redundant later category (thanks to Western historiographers , orientalists etc) because it is identical with Monism.
    Then there's the irony of a lot of Polytheism which is really Monotheism too (like Hinduism which is par excellence to this).

    Basically there is only Monism (Monotheism/Panentheism/Polythiesm/Nihilism etc) and Dualism (Atheism/Materialism).
     
  12. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

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    Interesting approach. But some monotheistic religions (e.g. Christianity) are actually dualistic in that they consider their deity to be separate from the world.
    How is atheism and materialism dualistic? They believe there is only one essence, namely matter.

    Panentheism is kinda between the categories as it sees the divine as the world plus something else, so they are 1.5-alistic (monohemialstic?) so to speak.
     
  13. FooYang

    FooYang Active Member

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    Hey, I don't deny that there are tendencies among the mainstream for them to interpret dualism onto their tradition/religion, however it's certainly not what the Bible (in the case of Christianity) nor what the earlier sects of Christianity (like Eastern Orthodox) teach in essence.
    As for 'separate from the world', one thing I truly appreciate deeply from studying and practicing Islam, was the notion of taking quote-unquote "Monotheism" seriously. Of course, Islam isn't monotheistic though, it believes that God is Oneness or Unity (the concept of Tawhid). Within this understanding of "monotheism" we realize that both in theology and philosophy, if we are to accept Monotheism, then we cannot consider 'the world' (or the Universe more accurately by extension) to be separate from God, or else you would me making a logical error that contradicts the premise of Monotheism by turning the world/universe into a second God. (this is Islamic theology/philosophy, I love it, it's very sharp and straight to the point about Shirk there)
    Hence, if you're a Christian, then you have to take God's "omnipresence" literally.
    When it comes to Islam in this case, everything that 'exists' (externally manifest) is a reflection of a name of God, which dims because the universe is veiled (al-Hijab) from God metaphysically, but nothing is separate from it.

    Perhaps what confuses me most about general Christianity though, is that they consider Jesus and YHWH (whatever YHWH even is) as 'more God' than the Burning Bush and figure on the throne (Ezekiel's vision). When really, God is not any of them, they are only mirages of theophany reflecting back the divine essence of God, which is Ultimate Reality itself.

    They consider: Matter to be real, they considers mind and body to be occupying different aspects of existence, they see everything as a result of entropy essentially, they take time and space as literal concepts, they see existence as merely contingent on particles bumping into each other, there are many more aspects to this - but it's very strongly dualistic.
     
  14. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

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    Okay, from that stance I'd agree that they are monistic. Just, there are a lot of dualistic tendencies in Christianity, especially among what actual Christians believe as opposed to what their scripture says.

    They consider mind a mere emanation from matter or just an illusion. That and the rest you said don't seem very dualistic to me.
     
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