Do you believe Moses parted the Red Sea?

[First Baseman]

Someone did the math...God killed 2.8 million people in the Bible, Satan killed 10 people.

God has created billions of people and saved billions of people from their sin. Try to do the math on that one.

 

[Demonslayer]

God has created billions of people and saved billions of people from their sin. Try to do the math on that one.

Since God invented sin, I don't find it particularly wonderful of him to "save" some people from it. Particularly when the Bible says very few people make it to Heaven.

Your God sets up a system of salvation he knows ahead of time will damn the vast majority of people to eternal torturous damnation, and we're supposed to kiss his invisible butt because he saves a handful who grovel and beg for it? Yeah, that's some guy.

 

[Demonslayer]

still, I see no cause to doubt the Jews
they believe in the exodus as an event

No Jew I know believes a word of it. And I live in Brookline, MA, Jew Central, so I know a lot of Jews.

Jews are about the least religious people I know, when it comes to actually believing in God. Lots of them follow the holidays, but not a single Jew I know actually believes in the Old Testament God or any of the magical stories like the Zoo-Boat or the Parting Sea.

These things are allegory, every grown adult should recognize fantasy from reality.

I mean it's just the fact that it's been 2000 years since the Bible was written that causes people to lose perspective on the fact that it's just a book. No one thinks the One True Ring really makes people invisible when they put it on, even though that's in a book. Why people think some dude with a magic wand called on God's power to make a dry hallway across the ocean floor is just so far beyond me. It's the ultimate suspension of disbelief.

There is no magic.

 

[Thief]

No Jew I know believes a word of it. And I live in Brookline, MA, Jew Central, so I know a lot of Jews.

Jews are about the least religious people I know, when it comes to actually believing in God. Lots of them follow the holidays, but not a single Jew I know actually believes in the Old Testament God or any of the magical stories like the Zoo-Boat or the Parting Sea.

These things are allegory, every grown adult should recognize fantasy from reality.

I mean it's just the fact that it's been 2000 years since the Bible was written that causes people to lose perspective on the fact that it's just a book. No one thinks the One True Ring really makes people invisible when they put it on, even though that's in a book. Why people think some dude with a magic wand called on God's power to make a dry hallway across the ocean floor is just so far beyond me. It's the ultimate suspension of disbelief.

There is no magic.

I hope your lack of belief plays well when you meet Moses.

oh....maybe you have resigned yourself to a grave?

 

[Demonslayer]

I hope your lack of belief plays well when you meet Moses.

I'm meeting Moses now too? I know I'm meeting St. Peter at the pearly gates, then Jesus, then stand before the all loving Yahweh before he tosses me into the furnace like human kindling. But I didn't know I got to meet Moses too. Think he'll let me play with his magic stick??

oh....maybe you have resigned yourself to a grave?

Cremation for me, graves creep me out. Although when I'm dead I don't care what you do with me. Donate my body to science, toss me in the ocean, I don't really care.

 

[Thief]

I'm meeting Moses now too? I know I'm meeting St. Peter at the pearly gates, then Jesus, then stand before the all loving Yahweh before he tosses me into the furnace like human kindling. But I didn't know I got to meet Moses too. Think he'll let me play with his magic stick??



Cremation for me, graves creep me out. Although when I'm dead I don't care what you do with me. Donate my body to science, toss me in the ocean, I don't really care.

as you please......but I think otherwise.....

more likely you just end up with others who think and feel like you do
how else to be happy?
how else to be fair?

 

[Demonslayer]

as you please......but I think otherwise.....

I know, and that's fine. Believe me, I wish you were right. Wouldn't we all love to think that when we die instead of, you know, being dead, we were whisked off to an eternal paradise?

Wouldn't it be nice?

how else to be happy?
how else to be fair?

You live in a world where everything is happy and fair? Can I come live with you?

 

[Thief]

I know, and that's fine. Believe me, I wish you were right. Wouldn't we all love to think that when we die instead of, you know, being dead, we were whisked off to an eternal paradise?

Wouldn't it be nice?



You live in a world where everything is happy and fair? Can I come live with you?

I figure on spending time with anyone who survives the last breath.
If I do so....one year's time to each....
I might be busy for billions of years.

I shall put you on the list.

 

[Demonslayer]

I might be busy for billions of years.

Eternity is quite a bit longer than that. I hope you're good at small talk.

I shall put you on the list.

Thanks man, if I see you there you can say "I told ya so" and I owe you the first beer.

 

[rosends]

No Jew I know believes a word of it. And I live in Brookline, MA, Jew Central, so I know a lot of Jews.

Jews are about the least religious people I know, when it comes to actually believing in God. Lots of them follow the holidays, but not a single Jew I know actually believes in the Old Testament God or any of the magical stories like the Zoo-Boat or the Parting Sea.

Really? Have you asked Rabbi Gewirtz? Have you been to the Bostoner's shul across from the Star Market on Beacon St and asked? Maybe, even though you live in Brookline, you don't hang out with the LOADS of religious Jews who do believe in it as an event, and in God.

 

[`mud]

And people really believe in this crap !!!!!!
I guess they'll never run out of holes or caskets.
Light the fire.....I'll follow you or you me.
Cognizance of nothing from nothing to eternity.
~
'mud

 

[Thief]

And people really believe in this crap !!!!!!
I guess they'll never run out of holes or caskets.
Light the fire.....I'll follow you or you me.
Cognizance of nothing from nothing to eternity.
~
'mud

oh no.....you are going to be soooooooo busy!

 

[metis]

What I saw often read here and on most other threads is speculation on top of speculation on top of even more speculation. That's all fine and dandy as long as one realizes they are indeed speculating, but less fine and dandy if they don't. And it's sorta pathetic that we see so few people posting something like "I don't know...".

I have some big problems with accepting the Exodus story at face value, but I can't go so far as to say that none of the events depicted didn't or couldn't have happened. I may be old, but I ain't that old.

So, I prefer to take the narrative as allegory and try and derive from it some lessons that can be applicable today, such as the terrible problems that injustice tends to create.

 

[Demonslayer]

Really? Have you asked Rabbi Gewirtz? Have you been to the Bostoner's shul across from the Star Market on Beacon St and asked? Maybe, even though you live in Brookline, you don't hang out with the LOADS of religious Jews who do believe in it as an event, and in God.

Is he in one of the Hassidic temples? I know there are a lot of hardcore Jews, I see them walking around Brookline on Saturday with their funky hats and curly sideburns.

I'm not saying zero Jews believe in the mystical elements of the Old Testament. I'm just saying the regular Jews I meet don't tend to believe in literal Bible translations as frequently as regular Christians seem to.

Fair?

 

[rosends]

Is he in one of the Hassidic temples? I know there are a lot of hardcore Jews, I see them walking around Brookline on Saturday with their funky hats and curly sideburns.

I'm not saying zero Jews believe in the mystical elements of the Old Testament. I'm just saying the regular Jews I meet don't tend to believe in literal Bible translations as frequently as regular Christians seem to.

Fair?

No, he isn't Chassidic. He's orthodox. We orthodox like to be considered regular also. Go to Green Street (I'm assuming the Young Israel is still over there). You will find all sorts of "regular" Jews who believe not in the "literal" but in the accuracy of the text.

 

[El Conquistador]

The really big boat and all those animals is a cool story.

 

[Demonslayer]

No, he isn't Chassidic. He's orthodox. We orthodox like to be considered regular also.

 

[Demonslayer]

No, he isn't Chassidic. He's orthodox. We orthodox like to be considered regular also. Go to Green Street (I'm assuming the Young Israel is still over there). You will find all sorts of "regular" Jews who believe not in the "literal" but in the accuracy of the text.

It seems like you're trying very hard to be insulted here, when you're actually agreeing with me.

Do you believe that Moses actually put his staff in the air and the ocean literally split in two, and the army literally walked across the ocean floor with miles of water-walls to their left and right?

It looks to me like you're saying you don't literally believe this. If anything its a compliment that the Jews I know are less superstitious than many Christians I know.

And I married into a Jewish family, so let's cut the "I'm so insulted' act. I know a lot of Jewish people and the ones that don't have snap-on curly sideburns mostly don't believe that the stories in the Bible literally took place. That's all I'm saying. Damn.

 

[rosends]

It seems like you're trying very hard to be insulted here, when you're actually agreeing with me.

not exactly, but OK. It seems that you don't see that categorizing one group as "regular" marginalizes the rest.

Do you believe that Moses actually put his staff in the air and the ocean literally split in two, and the army literally walked across the ocean floor with miles of water-walls to their left and right?

yes.

It looks to me like you're saying you don't literally believe this. If anything its a compliment that the Jews I know are less superstitious than many Christians I know.

It has nothing to do with superstition in my world. That's your word.

And I married into a Jewish family, so let's cut the "I'm so insulted' act. I know a lot of Jewish people and the ones that don't have snap-on curly sideburns mostly don't believe that the stories in the Bible literally took place. That's all I'm saying. Damn.

Some of your best friends are Jewish. How comforting.

 

[El Conquistador]

Some of your best friends are Jewish. How comforting.

How condescending.