Do Not Pray In Vain: Prayer: Matthew 6:5-15

[sealchan]

Regarding my first question, the consensus seems to be that while Jesus is warning us away from selfish prayer attitudes, he probably isn't indicating that prayer is to be entirely private. This sort of context has been favorably argued by others through out my examination of the Sermon on the Mount and it continues to be applicable here.

I find it fascinating to note, however, that this personal and internal effort is such a consistent theme. It suggests that Jesus and/or the author of Matthew wished to greatly promote a sense of personal spiritual effort that was introverted vs extroverted. He wants to explain that there is a deep value in meeting with God (and with yourself?!) privately in order to honestly access your self, your soul, perhaps, and make it right with righteousness. And it seems that you will gain great results in the extroverted, outer world from this inner, introverted effort. Clearly, in the greater context of the current Jewish community and the later Christian community, communal worship is a given and this fact is likely a reason why it is not, and need not be, emphasized in this scripture.

 

[sealchan]

KenS says...
2) I don't think so. I believe it said "vain repetitions". Saying and asking the same thinkg over and over again thinking that by much repitions, God is going to answer you. Many times Jesus asked "What do you want". That is a personal hotline at that point. In my understanding, it is when your prayer are nothing more than about you that you are crossing the line. Prayers about others are just as important and just as much of a hotline as when you pray for yourself.

BSM1 says...
I had a red neck preacher tell me once that you should not pray for strength because God will give you a trial that requires you to be strong; you should not pray for wisdom because God will give you a trial that requires smarts; you should not pray for courage because will give you a trial that requires you to be brave: etc., etc, you get the idea. I thought about this and even though I considered the guy a functioning moron I realized that most prayers are vanity or wishful thinking at best. So I developed my own prayer that has served me well for many, many years:

"God," I pray, "Please don't give me more than I can carry."

Deeje says...
2] Some people see prayer as though they were sitting in a restaurant snapping their fingers at some kind of celestial waiter.

Personal requests are fine provided that they are in harmony with God's will. (Philippians 4:6-7; 1 John 5:14; Psalm 55:22) Unselfish prayers are more in keeping with God's will. That does not mean that God will respond immediately or even in the way we think he should, but it doesn't mean our prayers are unanswered.
There is more to prayer than just asking God for things.....the fact that he knows what we need is one thing, but the fact that we ask...and keep on asking demonstrates our reliance on God and not ourselves. (Luke 11:9-10)

socharlie says...
Word "to pray" in Greek does not have exactly the same meaning as in English. From Strong's:
"4336 proseúxomai (from 4314 /prós, "towards, exchange" and 2172/euxomai, "to wish, pray") – properly, to exchange wishes; pray – literally, to interact with the Lord by switching human wishes(ideas) for His wishes as He imparts faith ("divine persuasion"). Accordingly, praying (4336/proseuxomai) is closely inter-connected with 4102 /pístis ("faith") in the NT. See: Ac 6:5,6,14:22,23; Eph 6:16-18; Col 1:3,4; 2 Thes 3:1,2; Js 5:13-15; Jude 20."
Switching wishes with God? Imo, it is what Jesus called worship in Spirit and truth. It is transcendental meditation with mantra described in Matt. 6.

ExVasterist says...
Sometimes he gives you what you want (though not exactly to the letter of what you want) and sometimes its a no (He'll do something else instead), but either way you won't know since he never replies "Yes/No".
And how exactly do you pray in vain? Thats like saying "No matter what you pray for, it'll never happen", thats basically what you're saying.

wizanda says...
It is a prayer personal hotline, as God already knows what we need before we ask (Matthew 6:8), and when we pray in faith expecting to get what we ask, it happens (Matthew 21:21-22).

Yet we're not to misuse it by overly praying in vain or using it for our ego.

I've been creating threads like this for over three years and I think this has to be a record number of sincere responses to any one of my questions.

Here I have re-quoted what everyone has said pertaining to whether we can pray for ourselves or more accurately, whether Jesus is warning us from praying in vain.

I suspect, as many above have said, that praying specifically to one's own needs is acceptable. But I think many here agree that while one might consider one's self, generally it is better to pray for others.

Jesus has, in his Sermon on the Mount, often spoken in strong terms but I find that generally that is rhetorical in the sense that he is making a point by contrasting his point against bad behavior. He is not advocating a one-sided approach, so my question about praying for yourself is unfairly buried under the burden of praying selfishly.

So again, perhaps, this is an example of how Jesus is not laying out comprehensive rules in his sermon, but is more re-balancing bad behavior with recommendations to correct it. And bad behavior generally amounts to self-aggrandizement.

But here is another angle...what does effective prayer look like? Jesus seems to be addressing whether or not your prayers will actually be answered in the positive...first he says reward is handed immediately to those who advertise their prayer, by your audience. If you want God's "reward" (NIV) then pray privately. Also, if you are praying for forgiveness, then you better be one who answers requests for forgiveness from others.

But what if you pray for a new car that you don't need? Under what circumstances might you get one as a result? Do those who believe in the prosperity gospel expect things to work like this? Is this in keeping with being "poor in spirit" (NIV)? If a prayer is not answered, have we, then, prayed incorrectly? And if we give of our excess wealth, can we expect to receive more excess wealth in return?

Some have already answered this question with a reasonable answer of, "God will do God's will" or something to that effect. And that is an answer I might give and why I tend to favor the more severe response that the best sort of prayer is the one Jesus offers which says as little as possible about one's specific concerns and focuses in a general way on God's greatness and our desire to not go astray from His will knowing that this is the essence of the life we should want.

 

[sealchan]

Regarding my last question...while it is not consistent with a Biblical understanding of God to think that anyone can control God, it is interesting to see how Matthew 6:14-15 gives one a "handle" on how God will respond to one's own personal attitude and choices. There is a direct link to how one thinks and feels as to how God will act or not act on your behalf. In other words, your psychology matters.

Time and again I see this as the main theme in Jesus' teachings, that there is an inner world which one has control over and which one can then exert some measure of control over the outer one if one steers inwardly correctly. This overwhelming theme distinguishes itself from the Jewish teachings even if it isn't a full contradiction to them. Even in Genesis 4:6-7 we have God speaking directly to Cain, advising him that his inner attitude will result in outer actions he should seek to avoid. So introspection and its benefits isn't something new in the New Testament, but I think that Jesus' emphasis on it is.