Do Baha'i believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper?

[CG Didymus]

Basically, from my experience, Baha'is know very very little about Hinduism. If they do, it's a very weird version they've invented to suit their agenda. Some here will admit that, while others hold onto the idea they know a lot. But the fact that Krishna is still considered and written here as a 'manifestation' means they most certainly haven't accepted Hinduism's version of Hinduism, which parallels that they haven't accepted the Islamic version of Islam, nor the Christian version of Christianity. Certainly despite it's surface tolerance, is really intolerant, even insulting. But you have already eloquently shown that many times over.

Baha'is main relationship to Hinduism is to bring them up to date, by sharing. 'Up to date' means accepting Baha'u'llah as the prophet of this age. Same old same old, but then I have a vendetta. I reckon they'd do a ton better if they didn't speak of other faiths at all.

That's exactly what I've been thinking. Why try and make all religions "one"?

Why some mysterious "original" teaching that would show that they all came from one God? If the people added to this message and changed what was the original intent, then why not just go one step further and eliminate that "original" message?

Maybe people in different times and different places just made up what they thought was the Truth? They had one God, many Gods, demons, evil mini-gods. Gods that wanted people to sacrifice things to them. Gods that flooded and blew up things. Gods that had messengers and prophets. Gods that appeared to people. All sorts of things.

How can Baha'is reconcile all those things? They can't and don't. They blow off a lot of it by saying that some of those things were from men, so, therefore, they are false. And, the other one, "It wasn't literal. It was symbolic." With those two things they do away with any and all beliefs that contradict their beliefs.

Why couldn't they just say, "Hey, everybody's wrong. We're right. We have a prophet that told us the real deal. Here it is. Believe or don't. And have a nice day."

 

[CG Didymus]

Life is too short to dwell too long on narrow-minded pettiness. We live in an age when we can learn more about the faith traditions of our own culture and of others easily. Those that wish to take the time and apply themselves can access talks and writings of world renowned scholars and teachers. The knowledge of God and His Prophets has been laid bare for all to see. If we are just and fair minded in our lives we can have eyes to see and know of our own knowledge and not the knowledge of our neighbour.

Yes, life is too short, so why not have a soul that lives many lives? That way they could experience life from many different perspectives?

Then about learning about other "faith" traditions. And, traditions within traditions. Then, offshoots from the main tradition into separate little religious traditions? I had a couple of courses on religions and just with that little knowledge, I can see that they are not all one. They are very different.

I think it is because the people and culture had a great deal to do with coming up with their beliefs. As time went on, those beliefs had things added or taken away. Other religions could have borrowed some of those beliefs, but built up a set of different beliefs. In another part of the world, a people could have a completely different set of beliefs... and even a whole different mythology of how things came to be.

How is that all that different than what Baha'is are saying? Only that you believe One True God sent a messenger or prophet to all people in all times. That message was One. But then, the people and the culture changed it to suit their society. When I say a "mythological" story was made up by the people to explain their god and how things came to be, you say that "yes" those stories are true, and they are the "Word" of God... but they are "symbolic" not literal. Which, to me, is saying that "yes" they are fictional. They didn't happen. "Yes", they are myth.

Such a fine line between us.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's exactly what I've been thinking. Why try and make all religions "one"?

The point given by Baha'u'llah is that they all have the same source.

It is progressive Revelation and evolves just as life also evolves.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

That's exactly what I've been thinking. Why try and make all religions "one"?

Why some mysterious "original" teaching that would show that they all came from one God? If the people added to this message and changed what was the original intent, then why not just go one step further and eliminate that "original" message?

Maybe people in different times and different places just made up what they thought was the Truth? They had one God, many Gods, demons, evil mini-gods. Gods that wanted people to sacrifice things to them. Gods that flooded and blew up things. Gods that had messengers and prophets. Gods that appeared to people. All sorts of things.

How can Baha'is reconcile all those things? They can't and don't. They blow off a lot of it by saying that some of those things were from men, so, therefore, they are false. And, the other one, "It wasn't literal. It was symbolic." With those two things they do away with any and all beliefs that contradict their beliefs.

Why couldn't they just say, "Hey, everybody's wrong. We're right. We have a prophet that told us the real deal. Here it is. Believe or don't. And have a nice day."

To be more concise ... they say ... "I agree with you, but you're wrong." It's really far too simplistic for anybody with many brains at all to fall for. Thank goodness.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How can Baha'is reconcile all those things? They can't and don't.

I know many that have found their balance in these issues and know in this earth the search never ends. One will always have to battle with ones own self.

The answers offered on this forum are the balance they have found and each has had to find their own balance.

If its such a quandry for you, just do not consider what Baha'u'llah has offered and sort it out another way.

Personally, Baha'u'llah has proven to me He is to be 100% trusted. Why is that important? Well one then becomes immersed in the ocean of the wisdom offered, all things become reconciled.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Why couldn't they just say, "Hey, everybody's wrong. We're right. We have a prophet that told us the real deal. Here it is. Believe or don't. And have a nice day."

A Baha'i knows that the only wrong they have to right is from their own selves.

Apart from that, we have the obligation to offer what we have found about Baha'u'llah, to which we see as a bounty. The obligation forbids us to proselytize, thus why we do not.

We will offer the answer to OP's and questions to the best of our own understandings of what Baha'u'llah openly offered to the world. Its not hidden.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How is that all that different than what Baha'is are saying? Only that you believe One True God sent a messenger or prophet to all people in all times. That message was One. But then, the people and the culture changed it to suit their society. When I say a "mythological" story was made up by the people to explain their god and how things came to be, you say that "yes" those stories are true, and they are the "Word" of God... but they are "symbolic" not literal. Which, to me, is saying that "yes" they are fictional. They didn't happen. "Yes", they are myth.

Such a fine line between us.

It was offered the source is One, not that all the Messages are identical in their entirety.

There are core fundamental Truths that are found in all Gods Faiths, the remainder suits the age the message is given in and the people it is given to.

Regards Tony

 

[Shantanu]

There are core fundamental Truths that are found in all Gods Faiths

Can you name a few of these core fundamental Truths that are found in all Gods Faiths and how these can be verified?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Can you name a few of these core fundamental Truths that are found in all Gods Faiths and how these can be verified?

This one is a good example.

This link has explored this fact;

Redirect Notice

Regards Tony

 

[Shantanu]

This one is a good example.

View attachment 26374

This link has explored this fact;

Redirect Notice

Regards Tony

So do not kill others, do not steal from others, do not incarcerate others in prisons and mental hospitals, etc?

 

[oldbadger]

The point given by Baha'u'llah is that they all have the same source.

It is progressive Revelation and evolves just as life also evolves.

Regards Tony

It's just so sad that Bahauallah's progressive revelation is believed by Bahais to be so inaccurate. Most of the revelations are denied, adjusted, etc.

 

[oldbadger]

I know many that have found their balance in these issues and know in this earth the search never ends. One will always have to battle with ones own self.

The answers offered on this forum are the balance they have found and each has had to find their own balance.

If its such a quandry for you, just do not consider what Baha'u'llah has offered and sort it out another way.

Personally, Baha'u'llah has proven to me He is to be 100% trusted. Why is that important? Well one then becomes immersed in the ocean of the wisdom offered, all things become reconciled.

Regards Tony

.....immersed in the ocean of wisdom offered.........
I would drown in all that double speak, I would.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So do not kill others, do not steal from others, do not incarcerate others in prisons and mental hospitals, etc?

The virtues are the core that binds all Faiths and all peoples. All we can know of God is virtues.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

It's just so sad that Bahauallah's progressive revelation is believed by Bahais to be so inaccurate. Most of the revelations are denied, adjusted, etc.

As a Baha'i I do not look at it as you have chosen to offer.

From day one of discussions on RF it has been offered we must go back to the original source prior to imput given ny men. Then look at those teachings with the eye of oneness.

When we do, this is all we will find, a common bond.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

.....immersed in the ocean of wisdom offered.........
I would drown in all that double speak, I would.

It is a great place to drown, I can only hope I will be allowed to.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

The virtues are the core that binds all Faiths and all peoples. All we can know of God is virtues.

Regards Tony

Nope, not for a Deist......

All we can know of God is everything that we can see, touch, smell, feel, perceive, hear or deduce by any other means. God is everything, every + or - force, all and nothing.

Virtues.......... what are virtues to Bahai, which adjusts its messages, alters or veils its Prophets' writings, imo uses charity donations for Bahai fundings, rejects other Beliefs and uses Double Speak in its messages?

 

[oldbadger]

As a Baha'i I do not look at it as you have chosen to offer.

From day one of discussions on RF it has been offered we must go back to the original source prior to imput given ny men. Then look at those teachings with the eye of oneness.

When we do, this is all we will find, a common bond.

Regards Tony

Tony......... what on Earth is true about the 'Eye of Oneness'?

There is only one source for all........ Nature, and in order to lift mankind above Nature's ruthless demands we need an honest base, and many of us have perceived through these threads on RF that Bahai is not an honest base. I dread to think about what a Bahai World Order would really be like.

 

[oldbadger]

It is a great place to drown, I can only hope I will be allowed to.

Regards Tony

No............@CG Didymus @Vinayaka and self will be waiting for you with water wings and flippers!


EDIT: OK, we'll throw in a mask and snorkel as well.

 

[Vinayaka]

No............@CG Didymus @Vinayaka and self will be waiting for you with water wings and flippers!

Expressing your vendetta, again, are you?

There have been a couple of Baha'i come to these forums that were honest enough to admit there were some serious problems, and were hoping to maybe subtly make some changes from the inside out, to make it more progressive. Historically, actions like that, when taken into reality, i.e. letters to their UHJ, have had them declared covenant breakers. Here they just get told off, and in one case, just left. (google Professor Juan Cole) So there is little hope. But, you as a deist, and me as a dharmic, we really have no place here other than to add some refuting ideas to the whole scheme. Nobody should be allowed to run rampant with any idea they want to. That's the nature of debate forums.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Yes, life is too short, so why not have a soul that lives many lives? That way they could experience life from many different perspectives?

Reincarnation or the literal transmigration of a soul from one life in this world to another is a largely Hindu belief though a significant minority of Buddhists believe it in too. Most of the world religions teach about a concept of an after life as well as rebirth. Being born again in the Gospel of John 3:7 is an example. We need to study the sacred writings that are attributed to the Manifestations of God. The writings of the Abrahamic faiths do not clearly teach reincarnation and the authenticity of the sacred writings in regard the Dharmic faiths can not be authenticated.

Then about learning about other "faith" traditions. And, traditions within traditions. Then, offshoots from the main tradition into separate little religious traditions? I had a couple of courses on religions and just with that little knowledge, I can see that they are not all one. They are very different.

Of course they all teach very different things. What else would we expect with six thousand years of religious history over vastly different cultures? How many gods are there for example? One, more than one or many? There can only be one true answer.

I think it is because the people and culture had a great deal to do with coming up with their beliefs. As time went on, those beliefs had things added or taken away. Other religions could have borrowed some of those beliefs, but built up a set of different beliefs. In another part of the world, a people could have a completely different set of beliefs... and even a whole different mythology of how things came to be.

I agree.

How is that all that different than what Baha'is are saying? Only that you believe One True God sent a messenger or prophet to all people in all times. That message was One. But then, the people and the culture changed it to suit their society. When I say a "mythological" story was made up by the people to explain their god and how things came to be, you say that "yes" those stories are true, and they are the "Word" of God... but they are "symbolic" not literal. Which, to me, is saying that "yes" they are fictional. They didn't happen. "Yes", they are myth.

The most important difference between us is belief in a God that has revealed Himself through different Manifestations of Messengers at different points in history.

Such a fine line between us.