Divine Attributes of Omnimax

[Omega Green]

"Omnimax" is a short-generic name for the supernatural deity that many monotheists call God.
We are calling him "Omnimax" because he holds maximum degrees of omni-attributes:

Humans are limited in power = so God is Omnipotent
Humans are limited in knowledge = so God is Omniscient
Humans are limited in love = so God is Omnibenevolent
Humans are limited in space = so God is Omnipresent
Humans are limited in time = so God is Immortal

This definition of God crops up primarily, in the orthodox strands of the three abrahamic faiths. Atheists and logicians have pointed to numerous problems with just 1 or 2 of these attributes. For instance; can an all-powerful and all-knowing god change his mind at a future moment in time? Not without not being not-omniscient; also omniscience contradicts free will in humans etc. What do people think of the general argument that this model of God constitutes a supernatural Idol, modeled of he limits of humanity?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

"Omnimax" is a short-generic name for the supernatural deity that many monotheists call God.
We are calling him "Omnimax" because he holds maximum degrees of omni-attributes:

Humans are limited in power = so God is Omnipotent
Humans are limited in knowledge = so God is Omniscient
Humans are limited in love = so God is Omnibenevolent
Humans are limited in space = so God is Omnipresent
Humans are limited in time = so God is Immortal

This definition of God crops up primarily, in the orthodox strands of the three abrahamic faiths. Atheists and logicians have pointed to numerous problems with just 1 or 2 of these attributes. For instance; can an all-powerful and all-knowing god change his mind at a future moment in time? Not without not being not-omniscient; also omniscience contradicts free will in humans etc. What do people think of the general argument that this model of God constitutes a supernatural Idol, modeled of he limits of humanity?

Pretending god exists as a concept, for a moment, how does an all knowing god limit humans from free will? He knows what we will do, he doesn't control us (or will us) to do only what he wants us to do.

If I were god and I thought, "I'm going to cure everyone from cancer" and then change my mind and say "No. I'll cure everyone from aids instead" that doesnt mean he isn't all knowing and all powerful. Changing decisions has nothing to do with his nature as an all knowing deity.

I don't see how changing his mind has to do with him being all powerful and all knowing. I know I have homework due on Monday and Wednesday. I thought about doing it Sunday and I changed my mind and did most of it today. That doesn't mean that I contradicted myself by knowing the future. I just made a different decision than what I wanted to do to begin with.

What I don't understand is how is god changing his mind making god limited in a christian point of view. I wish these questions I can get answers from Christians. I don't always. Guess I make my own conclusions and that's how we get all these same questions. We get defensive or insulted.​

 

[Tumah]

"Omnimax" is a short-generic name for the supernatural deity that many monotheists call God.
We are calling him "Omnimax" because he holds maximum degrees of omni-attributes:

Humans are limited in power = so God is Omnipotent
Humans are limited in knowledge = so God is Omniscient
Humans are limited in love = so God is Omnibenevolent
Humans are limited in space = so God is Omnipresent
Humans are limited in time = so God is Immortal

This definition of God crops up primarily, in the orthodox strands of the three abrahamic faiths. Atheists and logicians have pointed to numerous problems with just 1 or 2 of these attributes. For instance; can an all-powerful and all-knowing god change his mind at a future moment in time? Not without not being not-omniscient; also omniscience contradicts free will in humans etc. What do people think of the general argument that this model of God constitutes a supernatural Idol, modeled of he limits of humanity?

I am an Orthodox Jew, and to the best of my knowledge, we only describe G-d as having one attribute: Oneness. This list of attributes that you have here for the most part, would not be describing G-d's attributes as much as our perception of G-d. See also, apophatic theology.

 

[ak.yonathan]

What if there is a being even more powerful than God, God's God?

 

[Omega Green]

Pretending god exists as a concept, for a moment, how does an all knowing god limit humans from free will? He knows what we will do, he doesn't control us (or will us) to do only what he wants us to do.

If I were god and I thought, "I'm going to cure everyone from cancer" and then change my mind and say "No. I'll cure everyone from aids instead" that doesnt mean he isn't all knowing and all powerful. Changing decisions has nothing to do with his nature as an all knowing deity.

I don't see how changing his mind has to do with him being all powerful and all knowing. I know I have homework due on Monday and Wednesday. I thought about doing it Sunday and I changed my mind and did most of it today. That doesn't mean that I contradicted myself by knowing the future. I just made a different decision than what I wanted to do to begin with.

What I don't understand is how is god changing his mind making god limited in a christian point of view. I wish these questions I can get answers from Christians. I don't always. Guess I make my own conclusions and that's how we get all these same questions. We get defensive or insulted.​

Hey Carlita, sorry for the late reply - I lost track of the thread and then just now realized that I can track all my active threads via the messages feature!

I think that, if God were an omniscient being, then his knowledge of the life's course of a human being, of every human being, would also have been known to him prior to the creation of anyone. Our actions therefore, would be bound by Gods infinite knowledge, and thus not "free" in the sense that we could never do anything that would catch God off-guard, nor take him by surprise. Only if God lacked the knowledge of what we should do with our will, could we be said to possess a free will given by God as some kind of gift, as is typically advanced by the churches.

Does that help with your inquiry?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I kinda understand, and disagree. Let me ask for clarification before I completely disagree. That, and I know about the thread situation. I think I had two or three active threads and they just varnished from memory once I couldn't find them and no one replied. You can also save your favorite forums under the "watched forums" so when you log on, you don't have to shift through forums you don't use.

Our actions therefore, would be bound by Gods infinite knowledge, and thus not "free" in the sense

Well, that is the nature of the Christian god. I assume a Christian would understand that even thought they an do whatever they want god still knows what they will do even if he did not will it to happen.

A parent knowing that her child will take the jar of skittles off shelf and drop it on the floor in five minutes of her child reaching up will not prevent that child from doing anything but either keep reaching or stop.

Only if God lacked the knowledge of what we should do with our will, could we be said to possess a free will given by God as some kind of gift,

To tell you honestly, this concept (not yours) sounds more like ego talking. "I want to possess control over my knowledge and actions without almighty god (or my daddy) looking over me" type of thing. The point of having foreknowledge is that the Christian god would look over the Christian et cetera. He usually helps that Christian in his (Christian's) actions by guidence nad blessings.

Yes, it does sound kind of odd, at least to me, that if you know a Christian will ask you to save your child, you save the child, and give the Christian blessings for something you already known to begin with, would be a long winded affair-when you can save the child from the get go so the Christian won't feel agony and loose faith from loosing a loved one.

Blessings and teachings from god doesn't make sense if Christians did not have free will. Since god only knows what Christians will do but doesn't push them to do it, I'd say free will is an action-something we do regardless god knows we will do it or not.

I think it's an ego thing to want to do things without god's knowledge. It doesn't mean keeping free will, it just means you want to have control over god. From a Christian view (well, mainstream), that's, well, wrong.

But I kinda understand.

 

[Joshua Pryce]

What do people think of the general argument that this model of God constitutes a supernatural Idol, modeled of he limits of humanity?

I think its simple to understand. We are made in Gods image, we have dominion, power and authority and aspects of Godhood like God but in limited senses. It shows we are created in His image. For God to be a God He would have to only be able to be understood and recognised by people who are highly spiritual. A natural mind cannot understand God but a spiritual mind can. It separates spiritual people from non spiritual people. I also just gave you a secret to understanding what and Who a true God is. How to spot a true God from a fake.